About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

So Tandora, you're cool with everyone believing that you're a liar are you? You don't want to take a few moments to muster up some of that "evidence" you claim exists that would prove you right, no? Ok, just so we're clear. I mean there has been ample opportunity over the last, what's the count now 10-12?, times I've asked for you to show us.

Just FYI I'm going to keep reposting all of this until you give us some answers, evidence, or admit you've lied to us all, not as a harassment of you, which I'm confident you will claim is the reason, but because the claims are so extraordinary that you and the TRAs have expected the world to rearrange itself on them even though they are outright lies which only benefit men.

PSA for everyone
@Tandora can't find any evidence to support the theory that trans identifying males have ever been harmed in male single sex spaces! Fantastic news isn't it?!

And even better, Tandora can't find any evidence to support the theory that trans identifying males might have ever been unlawfully discriminated against either! Amazingly positive stuff all round!

I'm still confused why Tandora thinks it's outing for trans identifying males to use a mixed sex toilet when loads of other people of all sexes and gender identities (if they've got one) are using them too though?

because if people see them eg walking across a complex/ building just to do this, it’s not that difficult to put two and two together as to why.

Why? From what you say no one can tell what someone else's sex is, and trans identifying men pass. In addition other people will also be using the mixed sex toilets, trans allies, people who just don't care what toilets they use, trans identifying females... so why would trans identifying males be outed by using them too? I don't understand, please help me understand.

Since Tandora doesn't want to answer this question I am left to conclude that I was right and it's really not about it being outing at all (because how could it be?), I think it's actually because the TRAs want access to non-consenting women. Tandora could easily prove me wrong with an explanation, but I don't think Tandora can.

So since you have no evidence or reply to the rest of my multiple copies of the same post, you must agree with the rest of my PSA then? Good! 😁

Extra bonus PSA Tandora agrees with me!! Mark it on the calendar everyone, it's an early Christmas miracle!

It is not 'propaganda' that people are feeling that they are left with no option but to leave the UK because of recent policy developments.

Which recent policy developments? Is this the discrimination that you are talking about? Can you be more specific because as far as I know there haven't been any cases of unlawful discrimination against trans identifying males. Prove me wrong, please, that is if you can.

And you still haven't answered @Namelessnelly's question on how allowing trans identified males into female single sex spaces is of benefit to actual women and not just to the non-trans identified males.

Yes, let’s digest my post. I don’t want men who’ll help themselves to women’s spaces. How very mean of me.

But of course you were talking about something else - funny that, you always are.

Your appeal to ‘look at the mean person’ is hilarious. We all see it, it’s a proven tactic.

Consistency isn't Tandora's greatest strength, she be along in a second all wide eyed and innocent saying 'I didn't say that'.

Just like she has stated that her baby is a 'girl' despite her claims that Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components.
So how she can possibly regard the sex of her baby as a fact without waiting to hear the child's view (which is obviously the most important and relevant aspect when it comes to the tangled complexity of human sex) is a mystery to me. She appears to have taken the midwife's 'assignment' of sex at her baby's birth at face value.

It's femphobic and misogynistic to repeatedly mis-sex a male. And deeply disrespectful to females.

Yup. You’ve lied to me on at least 3 occasions about stuff you claim not to have said. I gave you proof.

For the last time. Yes. You. Can. That. is. what. STATISTICS. and. DATA. Is. For.

And. Please. Look. Up. Per. Capita.

@GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen

Yes, I noticed the certainty that the baby had been misgendered. I don’t know how that could happen in Tandy world. Sex is more complicated than the Big Bang and string theory, gender is….. well, take your pick from the box of tricks. However the female baby was misgendered.

Head : wall

This was Tandora's pathetic attempt to shame me with intellectual snobbery.

I give pedants and English teachers a veritable feast of options to pick over, sentence structure, spelling and grammar, a cavalier approach to punctuation, and many, many other errors. I commit a lot of "sins" and (sorry pedants, and Mrs B if you're still out there) I don't really care. Even at my worst, I still make more sense than Tandora! 😂😂😂

To be fair so does the average 2 year old.

Dangerous drugs and hormones for kids is not 'health care'.

No you didn’t. you once (maybe twice?) copy pasted a statement I wrote that was entirely different 😂.

i have to say I’ve been on a lot of threads about trans stuff on mumsnet, I think this is the nuttiest yet 🤣🤣

Umm…. Err….. you’re not making much sense. Maybe because you , like Humpty Dumpty, believe words mean exactly what you want them to mean and nothing else.

You lied to me too, I went and slogged through a bunch of posts to prove it because it was such an outrageously dangerous thing you were throwing your support behind.

And still no evidence so even more lies apparently, which you are yet to deny so...

i have to say I’ve been on a lot of threads about trans stuff on mumsnet, I think this is the nuttiest yet 🤣🤣

And who’s making it the nuttiest?! I have to say your posts are pure comedy gold, Tandora, and I’m delighted to see you’ve kept going today, giving lots and lots of lovely sunshine, and on AIBU no less, instead of tucked away on FWR. Fab.

I have to say, though, you’re sailing dangerously close to jumping the shark with comments like that above.

Of course this thread seems nutty to Tandora, she’s been caught out. Women who don’t respond to attempted scolding & finger wagging. Intelligent & informed, knowledgeable, who can put forward an argument without recourse to junk pseudo science & fantasy about sex & gender.

As I’ve said several times, it’s good to see the nonsense of this ideology aired.

The best lie was @Tandora being a great advocate of women’s rights, safety, dignity and comfort. Still waiting to hear how me letting a trans identified male into my single sex spaces will benefit me

It's one of Tandora's superpowers
Along with being absolutely correct when she makes an assumption about someone's beliefs or meaning (she her list of assumptions she has assumed we make) while no-one can actually understand what she says (possibly because a it's gibberish b words have no accepted meaning in her world).
And the recent addition of being able to detect the undetectable sex of infants. Something that apparently is beyond the powers of the worlds leading experts because it's all too complex.

I think that’s you and your fellow GC PPs on this thread.

the conversation goes:

me: sex is complex and has many components.

pps: Tandora says it’s never possible to tell anyone’s sex!!!

me: no I said: sex is complicated and has many components.

pp’s: liar liar!!

😂😂😂

But you did say that. You said no one could be 100% sure what sex they were as sex was so complicated and multidimensional so we had to let males with a trans identity into female spaces cos they might actually be really female as no one could tell. There’s 3 threads on the subject.

Its against the law to designate a space for one sex or the other (which sometimes the law requires that we do) and then allow that space to become mixed sex by permitting some people of the opposite sex to use it.
Providers doing so will fall foul of the law on one or both of two counts. Firstly that they are failing to provide a single sex space where (if) they are legally required to do so.
Secondly that they are discriminating against some individuals by refusing them the space on the grounds of sex, while permitting others of the same sex as them to use the space.
I agree the trans person themselves may not be directly breaking any laws by using opposite sex facilities. However if the provider who would be breaking it by allowing them to tells them to leave, then the law will be on the side of the provider.
The only way trans people can use opposite sex facilities now is by stealth, hoping no one reports them, or if there is a provider willing to break the law to abet them.

It's pretty common. I always check as best I can, and clean up the piss.

Her child's MH issue/delusion is not a concern of yours or your daughter. You did nothing wrong.

You said no one could be 100% sure what sex they were

No I didn't 😂. This is simply false.

Just as it's simply false that it's illegal for a trans woman to use the female loo and that it's a reasonable statistical inference to generalise from the prison pop the the general population.

PPs keep calling me a 'liar', but its others on this thread who keep repeating completely false statements for no discernible reason.

Not sure if they are liars or if there is another issue , but it is very odd.

Mate. Stop now. Seriously. I feel so bad as my mother taught me it’s wrong to mock the afflicted and I think engaging with you definitely falls under that category. You have said that. You know you have said that. At the moment you’re just making yourself look very very foolish.

It is indeed illegal as evidenced by police getting involved.

And AGAIN, you need to learn what PER....CAPITA means. Or are you just playing stupid.

Btw, still cowardly refusing to answer what benefit it is to females to have males in our spaces?