About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

'GNC' (no one is completely 'gender conforming' so everyone is 'GNC') are not banned from their own sex spaces.

And being able to change out in the open near the sink, seek help from women, escape males, rinse out mooncups/underwear etc IS a benefit of not having males there.

100%

There is a distinct lack of any 'reason, logic, insight' in your posts. Females fearing males is very sensible and based on eons of experience.

Males are NOT a 'minority' group. They are a majority and the ruling oppressor and predator class. Wearing a dress does not change that.

potentially humiliating

Too bloody bad! It is humiliating for a female having a miscarriage or rinsing out underwear to have a male there, but you don't give a stuff how females feel do you.

and outing for a trans person to be singled out to use mixed sex.

If it's not 'outing' for an ordinary female or male to use mixed sex, HOW is it 'outing' for a female or male who is trans to use mixed sex? See your arguments makes zero sense!

In terms of safety - would you as an individual woman walk into communal men's toilet and feel comfortable, safe? This is exactly how it would feel to a trans women.

No, which is EXACTLY WHY we don't feel comfortable or safe having a male in our space. And has you've repeatedly been told, transwomen are completely safe in the males. The reverse is not the same for us. Not only is it a viable option for them, it is the ONLY viable option for them. Because as a male, they cannot enter a female space.

No trans woman is going to do this

Again, too bad! That is their problem, females are NOT HUMAN SHIELDS. Yet you really refuse to understand this. You think a male's fear of other males is understandable, but females fear of males is not understandable. Males need to sort out their own problems. We are NOT SAFE or comfortable with males in our intimate spaces. And that is it and that is final!

PSA for everyone

@Tandora can't find any evidence to support the theory that trans identifying males have ever been harmed in male single sex spaces! Fantastic news isn't it?!

And even better, Tandora can't find any evidence to support the theory that trans identifying males might have ever been unlawfully discriminated against either! Amazingly positive stuff all round!

Apparently all that talk of state sanctioned discrimination leading to a mass exodus of fleeing trans identifying people and their families to some country that is a trans utopia is just propaganda, phew!

It's not actually happening which is great news! On the other hand, sadly for the people with trans identities, that utopia where trans rights trump all is still just a fantasy, sad times!

I'm still confused why Tandora thinks it's outing for trans identifying males to use a mixed sex toilet when loads of other people of all sexes and gender identities (if they've got one) are using them too though?

because if people see them eg walking across a complex/ building just to do this, it’s not that difficult to put two and two together as to why.
Why? From what you say no one can tell what someone else's sex is, and trans identifying men pass. In addition other people will also be using the mixed sex toilets, trans allies, people who just don't care what toilets they use, trans identifying females... so why would trans identifying males be outed by using them too? I don't understand, please help me understand.

Since Tandora doesn't want to answer this question I am left to conclude that I was right and it's really not about it being outing at all (because how could it be?), I think it's actually because the TRAs want access to non-consenting women. Tandora could easily prove me wrong with an explanation, but I don't think Tandora can.

Apparently all that talk of state sanctioned discrimination leading to a mass exodus of fleeing trans identifying people and their families to some country that is a trans utopia is just propaganda, phew!

There is no 'trans utopia', but most countries across Europe are significantly better places for trans rights than the UK right now. It is not 'propaganda' that people are feeling that they are left with no option but to leave the UK because of recent policy developments. I personally know people who are doing this - right now.
A much broader group of people who don't have the privilege/ means to just up and move are very scared.

This is the reality of the harm being caused. Right now. To trans people and their families.

As others rightly deduced, this is bullshit. Firstly because women don't tend to 'spit' on other women (that's a male trait, which is the clue the article was written and made up by a male), let alone someone they think is male; they FLEE. They are not going to spit at (what they think is) a male and risk being laid out.

Secondly it's easy to see by her face and chest that she's a woman.

F for that article as an attempt at a short story fiction.

And 99.999999999% of butch women are happy to be asked because they know it's for their benefit too, and know as soon as they turn around and/or start speaking, it's ok.

SP waited respectfully outside while Upton changed. Waiting outside is not 'harassment'. Upton accosting SP, AND keeping a dossier on her, AND editing screenshots, is.

So since you have no evidence or reply to the rest of my multiple copies of the same post, you must agree with the rest of my PSA then? Good! 😁

Extra bonus PSA Tandora agrees with me!! Mark it on the calendar everyone, it's an early Christmas miracle!

Which recent policy developments? Is this the discrimination that you are talking about? Can you be more specific because as far as I know there haven't been any cases of unlawful discrimination against trans identifying males. Prove me wrong, please, that is if you can.

Now despite me being a female, with female strength absolutely nothing happened to me so if a person with male strength went in there the odd are nothing would happen to them either.

How do you know they have misgendered your baby?

Surely you can't know your baby's gender, it isn't something that can be observed is it? It is something that he/she will feel in their brain.

You mean they have mis-sexed her, which is very easy to do what with is being a complex multifaceted nebulous dog whistle.

If a male feels 'humiliated, uncomfortable, unsafe' using male spaces, that's a him problem and he needs serious help. And his problem to solve. Women are not HUMAN SHIELDS for defective males.

It IS against the law for a MALE person to use the womens toilet, which is why police and managers have already been called in the UK a few times over it.

I'd have told her to mind her own business but not that polite.

I would have also told her that she doesn't have a trans child, she has an indoctrinated child and she's part of the problem.

It's clear you live in a fantasy that is not based in reality. 'Transwomen' have the experience of males. They may have a mental illness, but they are not female. They have Male Privilege, are socialised as males and have male lived experience. They have no 'experience' of the female lived experience any more than a white person has the experience of a black person. The trans identified male cannot appropriate the oppressed class and say they 'understand' or have our 'lived experience'. They don't.

So, they either use the males, a third space, or they stay him. Full stop. End of story. Them using the females will never, ever, EVER be an option or negotiable. Ever.

It’s actually very easy to see what SEX somebody is. So mistaking a man for a woman, or vice versa, would be unusual.

If a man has made a huge effort to present in the gender norms of a woman he might, on occasion, fool some people temporarily. But the minute he speaks or moves, & certainly in person, the game’s up.

Plus of course the larger hands & feet, Adam’s apple, larger head with a thicker more pronounced brow, slightly further inset eyes, larger jaw. And if the hair removal is lacking the 5 o’clock shadow will be visible, plus other body hair. If the wig’s in the wash there’ll often be male pattern baldness.

Not to mention hips, waist, gait differences. There are about 600 physiological differences between males & females.

Gender is a set of social stereotypes, if a man wants to present himself in the social & cultural stereotypes normally associated with women well hey, knock yourself out. But if he then wants the pronouns & language that women use to describe themselves & their experience of being the female sex then nah, not happening.

They might prefer me to lie to & about them, I prefer the truth.

because if people seem them eg walking across a complex/ building just to do this, it’s not that difficult to put two and two together as to why.

That's a them problem to solve, not ours. The female space is NON-NEGOTIABLE. So they will have to work around it.

how can I prove this to you when you refuse to acknowledge the realities of being trans or of trans experience?

You refuse to acknowledge the realities of being female, of being the oppressed sex class, and the female lived experience that no male can ever have.

there are people , families, leaving the country right now because of the (increasingly state sanctioned) discrimination against trans people in this country .

Well that's good as it makes the UK much safer for females. And it's not 'discrimination' against 'trans' people to expect males to use the MALE FACILITIES. It is discrimination against female people to have males in our intimate SAFE SPACES.

It IS against the law for a MALE person to use the womens toilet,

No it's not 😂.

Oh lordy.

Why? From what you say no one can tell what someone else's sex is, and trans identifying men pass.

and

In addition other people will also be using the mixed sex toilets, trans allies, people who just don't care what toilets they use, trans identifying females... so why would trans identifying males be outed by using them too? I don't understand, please help me understand.

Tandora has failed to provide any evidence of the great oppressed trans exodus. But hey, if men who refuse to follow the law, as clarified by the recent Supreme Court ruling, want to leave, I’m here for that.

Actually, I’ll put on some coaches and arrange a lunch box for the journey to Transtopia. I think it’s turn left at Italy then follow your nose till you reach Nirvana.

The less boundary transgressing men there are in this country the better. I have a clipboard, come & sign up.

They are men (or rather males) who identify as trans. There is nothing discriminatory or 'transphobic' about that, please stop lying.

She was just a busybody. 'OK' and walking off is the perfect response IMO!

Tandora also didn't answer how having a male in a female space 'benefits' the female. They refuse to answer questions that show the idiocy of their 'arguments'.

It is accurate and factual.
As is 'men who have a trans identity'
Or 'men who say they're women'.
Or for that matter 'women who say they're men'.

hey, if men who refuse to follow the law, as clarified by the recent Supreme Court ruling, want to leave, I’m here for that.
Actually, I’ll put on some coaches and arrange a lunch box for the journey to Transtopia. I think it’s turn left at Italy then follow your nose till you reach Nirvana.
The less boundary transgressing men there are in this country the better. I have a clipboard, come & sign up.

Let's all take some time to digest the character of what you have written here.

By the way, foremost in my mind are the families with children who are worried for their kids' safety and privacy at school and their ability to access the healthcare they might need.

Also, holy cow! We have it from Tandora that it’s easy to misgender somebody. She says it’s not a sin. Can I have that in writing to send to all the trans people cowering in safe spaces at Universities, terrified to go to lectures because their lecturer correctly sexed them, because they couldn’t see into their gendered soul! 🤣

All these years we’ve been told it’s literal violence. All the time it was just whoopsie!