About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

Tandora doesn’t give a shit about the safety, dignity, rights or agency of women and children. Tandora is very happy for women and girls to be harmed, if it keeps men happy.

Operation Let Them Speak.

@GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen

As you say, finally we have the truth. All the other bunkum was essentially wrapping up & presenting this ugly truth in what they thought was a more palatable, reasonable package.

We’ve always known that this is what they think. Every time I see it it makes the glow from the SC ruling just that little bit warmer. I’m already enjoying the back tracking, the rewriting of internal guidance, the law suits & the capitulation before it gets to court.

Those man size tissues will be in demand 😫

Let’s practice Tandora’s response to @GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen

‘But a trans person using the female toilets is doing so quite rightly, as their sense of being female is innate & unique to them. It doesn’t have anything to do with your feeling of being female, that you see represented by the figure on the door of facilities. All that silly Biology.

It’s not a competition, you have your femaleness, the trans person has theirs. Who’s to say either of you are right. As for safety, trans people who know they were assigned male at birth are the most vulnerable people in existence. They live lives of unimaginable oppression, terror, they barely leave the house. If you find one in your changing room, toilets, refuge, welcome them, let them pat the support dog. A fellow weary traveller who just wants you to BeKind & ignore, well, everything.

Have I left anything out?!

Possibly some wailing and bashing fists on the ground whilst shouting 'but but but we want to'

I don't think you have quite enough contradicting of their own arguments or extraneous pompous biggly words or pseudoscience dressed up as FACT but I'm sure you could run it through some sort of online waffle generator to get that effect. 7/10

@GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen

🤣🤣 Why thank you 🙇‍♀️

I love the idea of a waffle generator! You’re correct in that my response was too coherent (or as coherent as 🦇💩 crazy can be!)

Umm…….

For the last time. A trans woman is a person registered male at birth who recognises themself to be a woman.

did you not say that then? I think it was on page 22 or 23. Im sure someone can check….

i await your apology.

yes I said “A trans woman is a person registered male at birth who recognises themself to be a woman.”

That does not mean

”trans women are women because they say so”.

I care immensely about the safety, dignity, rights or agency of women and children (and im pretty sure I’ve contributed more to promoting that than you).

i also care about the safety, dignity, rights and agency of trans people.

these things are entirely compatible- indeed they go hand in hand.

I get it. This is what you think trans people are like. Violent. Criminals. Sexual predators. Etc. That is how you justify your position.

Ummm… yes. Yes it does. Unless you are saying transwomen are not women? You’ve spent many threads arguing transwomen are women because they say so, are you now saying you think transwomen are men? Rather a mad 180 there.

So if a woman claims she needs a single sex space for her safety and dignity, but a male with a trans identity claims he needs that space for his safety and dignity, who’s feelings should take precedence?

@Tandora would a transwoman be a woman if they stayed closeted all their life, never expressed their female gender, fathered children, lived all their lives as the male sex and gender they were observed to be at birth? There must be loads of closeted such cases historically.

No, I’ve literally never once said

”trans women are women because they say so”.

That would be a completely trite and meaningless statement.

Ive never once made this statement and yet you declared to a poster it is the only thing I say 🤣.

So what is a 'transwoman' and how are they 'women'?

Don’t be absurd. When you are given evidence that women and children are VASTLY more at risk of being harmed in mixed sex facilities and you STILL push for this regardless, you are very clearly showing that you do NOT care for women and children at all.

You are demonstrating beyond doubt that you prioritise the feelings of males above the physical safety, dignity and agency of women and girls.

When you promote inclusion of biological males in women’s sport and women’s prizes, you show us that you are happy for women to miss out, so men can gain (even more than they already have).

No amount of your twaddle can hide this. We all see it.

And this is yet more twaddle: im pretty sure I’ve contributed more to promoting that than you)

You have NO evidence to assert this. You don’t know who the fuck I am. I could have done absolutely nothing to promote the rights of women other than post on Mumsnet, or I could have spent 30+ years dedicating 40 hours a week to it in real life. You just don’t know, do you? And one of the reasons for that is that dick-pandering TRAs have bullied women into feeling too scared to break cover. So to assert what you do is absolutely absurd. Like pretty much everything you post.

But carry on, as your posts are an absolutely splendid way for us to get sunlight on the risible, counter-factual, breathtakingly selfish aims of the ‘trans rights’ lobby. Which we all know is actually a thinly-disguised men’s rights lobby.

Tandora denies saying a lot of things. Tandora tried to tell me yesterday that they'd never advocated for trans identifying people to hide their sex from medical staff in a healthcare setting.

I know Tandora has said this before, so I've been a right saddo and found the relevant posts from one thread, this is not the only time Tandora has said this, however am I fuck trawling through more of the thousands of Tandora's posts to track them down, I'll have made my point. And does anyone really believe that Tandora is telling the truth when they tell us they have a PhD in something relevant to developmental biology? Surely if Tandora was telling the truth they would understand* how dangerous* what Tandora says below is?

Tandora · 04/08/2024 02:19

SilenceInside · 04/08/2024 02:14
It's not because they are trans that they shouldn't be on a single sex female ward, it's because they are male. It's a nonsense to suggest that it's about "upsetting women with their transness" when you've just been told it's about women being traumatised and distressed, and being put at additional risk. No one would need to "out" the transwoman as other patients aren't told why some patients are in side rooms!

(Tandora)
I don’t think trans people should always have to be put in side rooms to make women more comfortable. That is part of trying to make trans people disappear from public life and making them feel like stigmatised or second class people. And by outing themselves - I also mean to the medical staff! Plenty of trans girls and women are really private about being trans and the pass as women, it wouldn’t even necessarily be on their medical records.

This is not the only time I've seen Tandora advocate for this dangerous concealment of sex in a medical setting, but as I also said earlier Tandora has changed tactics now that multiple posters pointed out how dangerous this would be.

The point of me finding and posting this is that Tandora denied ever having said this, so my aim was to prove that Tandora did say this and to point out that anyone who apparently has a PhD in a developmental biology related field of study (which Tandora claims to have), would know this is an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing to say!

FWIW I did have a laugh re-reading that thread, Tandora's nesting dolls of hate theory where objection to males in female space was "transphobia rooted in misogyny" was slightly amusing 😂

Edited to say the quotes were lifted verbatim from the feminists against sex segregation in sports. Oh and that in that thread, Tandora agreed that sex was binary 😂

You have spent many many threads telling us all transwomen are women because they see themselves as women. That male people are entitled to use women’s spaces because they say they are women. Are you saying you don’t believe they are women but are willing to let them into women’s spaces? Why?

There must be loads of closeted such cases historically

yes I believe there are.

In terms of your question- I don’t consider myself to be the arbiter of who is a “woman” or what a “woman” is. (Neither are you for that matter).

All I can do is tell you about the reality - the science- of what it is to be trans. To be a trans is to understand/ recognise/ perceive/ know oneself to be other than the sex one was registered/ observed/ assigned at birth. This isn’t trivial. It is a pervasive, all consuming, type of psychological/ cognitive experience over which the individual has no control and can cause acute distress (depression/ disorientation/ disassociation) if it is denied/ repressed etc.

There is no evidence whatsoever that women and children are more at risk by sharing facilities with trans women. Or that prohibiting trans women from using women’s facilities will improve safety for women and children. Zero.

Yes I don’t know what you’ve done, hence saying “I’m pretty sure”, not “ certain”. I’ve done vastly more than most people, so chances are I’ve done more than you. Your attitudes towards trans people (and people who disagree with you) is also a clue on this.

So you can unambiguously live your whole life and die as a man but still be a woman? 🤯

But you’ve said before no one can truly know their biological sex as it was too complicated. So how do transpeople know their gender identity doesn’t match their biological sex? And please don’t try the “I never said that”. Unless you want to look even more foolish?

Did you read what I wrote?

Some are. Obvs. The majority of men aren’t violent criminals or sexual predators. They all, even the lovely nice ones, have to stay out of women’s spaces. Why do you think that is? What makes
trans women different?

So, again, what makes a male become a transwomen become a woman? And how can they become something you can’t define? And again, if someone born male at birth can they then become a giraffe without question because according to you all they need to do is merely say so?

Can an adult identify as a child? I mean it’s less absurd isn’t it, at least an adult has had experience of being a child. A male has never and will never have experience of being female.

they know their sex registered at birth, does not match the sex they recognise themself to be.

Also I never said “no one can truly know their biological sex”. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I said sex was multidimensional and complicated. I still know that I am a woman.

The level of comprehension is baffling. I think I have better things to do with my time.

Yes of course. Logically if transwomen are women, you can be a woman even if you never express your transness in any way and are therefore a man to all intents and purposes.