About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

@DrPrunesqualer

🤣I have indeed! And 2 cups of tea!

I’m also doing some heavy duty gardening & fence painting. I’d like to identify as a landscaper so that somebody might pay me!! Unfortunately I’ll have to stick to a boring woman in her own garden.

Most of my make up has worn off & I’m wearing an oversized shirt, so I’m guessing I’m doing a kind of non-binary gardening? Hey, it’s what I recognise myself as 🤣🙄

There won't be an answer - there hasn't been one across numerous threads. Just like there isn't an answer to if it isn't biology what is a woman?

I'm hoping one day @Tandora will get so bored of me asking she will lower herself to answer my pesky annoying question but we aren't there yet.

Yes you have. You said transwomen were women because that’s how they saw themselves. You’ve said that a lot.

TRAs never gave a rat’s arse about trans men until the SC ruling.

Completely weird that you think this. “TRAs” have always cared exactly equally about trans men and trans women. Supporting trans people has got nothing to do with supporting people observed male at birth and everything to do with supporting trans people.

*transwomen were women because that’s how they saw themselves”

I’ve literally never made this statement. But your relationship with the truth is shaky at best it seems.

Why do you keep asking me this silly question. The application of “rights” has nothing to do with whether someone is “nice” or not as you well know . Being a criminal affects a persons rights- nice is neither here nor there.

If you are referring to SP- the evidence about her being a generally prejudiced person (racist etc) was not used because it has an impact on whether she’s entitled to a “single sex” changing room. It was used to show that her objection to DU was not really about fears for her safety or privacy, her objection to DU was rooted in prejudice and her general intolerance for anybody who isn’t white/ cisgendered / British etc etc. SP is not a victim, she is a bully.

‘Completely weird’ but oh so strangely true.

How many women who identify as men do you see at Let Women Speak rallies? Are they screaming at the women speakers? Are they there as allies or worried they won’t be able to use male single sex spaces?

No, because this is a men’s rights movement. Females don’t want to get their heads kicked in or jaws broken playing on male rugby or football teams, or fighting male boxers. They also know they’re safer using the facilities of their own sex, you know, females. Because funnily enough that’s why we have single sex spaces, along with privacy & dignity.

You can blah, blah all you like, trans men have been of no use to TRAs until now. Of course not, because they’re only women.

Because you keep not answering.

Do my maiden Auntie in her 70s and my tween nieces deserve a single sex changing area at the swimming pool or do they have to have their female bodies looked at by any man who identifies his way into the female changing room.

I don’t think either your auntie or your nieces have the right to tell trans people what toilet or changing room they have to use. No.

This is all a load of rubbish.

Trans women specifically are the target of rallies like “let women speak”. Those campaigners entirely ignore the existence of trans men so why would they put themselves in the firing line.

As for people who care about trans people and their rights? They have been campaigning for, supporting , providing services , advocacy etc for trans men on an equal basis with trans women from day zero.

@GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen

Tsndora’s answer will always be that women are entitled to what they want as long as they include men who ‘recognise themselves to be female.’

Any woman who doesn’t think that is an uneducated bigot.

SP didn’t want Dr Theodore ‘Beth’ Upton, a male 6ft plus ex rugby player in the female locker room because he’s a man. Not because she may hold other views about people generally, but because he’s male.

NHS Fife had incorrectly allowed Dr Upton to use the female locker room. This is the crux of the matter. Pulling up messages from a 7 year long WhatsApp group was smoke & mirrors. SP or any other woman can hold whatever views they like, agreeable or otherwise. This makes no difference to them rightly objecting to a male doctor getting undressed with them in a female only locker room.

If anyone’s motives are in question here it’s the Dr. Keeping a notebook about whether women seemed to be leaving their space when he entered, or avoiding going in? Oh no, that’s not creepy. Or altering the dates on screen shots used in evidence? Oh no, that’s fine.

If Dr Upton had been allowed to use the female locker room then his other behaviours, just like SP’s, would also be irrelevant. But he wasn’t. He was in the wrong, as was his employer, & the law is the issue here, not SPs views.

Whats the fact that she’s 6ft and a rugby player got to do with it?

Of course it’s men trying to use women’s spaces that women are concerned about. They don’t have to worry about 5’6” Jane who’s been through female puberty.

Wearing a checked shirt, growing a beard & cutting her hair hasn’t made her a man, it hasn’t given her male strength and male offending patterns. Trans men aren’t a threat to women - because they are women. I’m sorry you are finding this so complicated.

And no, all the talking heads on tv & other forms of media are almost exclusively men, talking about their terrifying lives as a result of women saying no.

Anyway, back to the fence painting.

The fact that Dr Upton is a man and a 6ft plus ex rugby player is important for other readers to know. If you’re not well acquainted with the ideology, your go to ‘trans woman’ is probably the fragrant Kaitlyn Jenner. Or you’ve only seen heavily filtered selfies of men trying to pass as women.

With all the thought stopping cliches, mangling of language & appeals to BeKind, people may envisage a petite, totally feminised man who’s undergone genital reassignment surgery (we know that less than 5% do). So when a woman objects they may think Oh what’s the harm, it’s just a small quiet man who’s removed his penis etc trying to look like a lady.

The reality is a nurse like SP, with period blood soaking through her scrubs, asking a man like Dr Upton to leave a female only space. A man who refuses.

Of course it doesn’t matter what a man looks like, or whether he has his genitals in tact, they’re all men, so they all need to stay out.

But I’m sure you get my point.

And there we finally have it.

No women however nice, however kind, however damaged by male behaviour have the right to get naked in a supposedly single sex female space without potentially having a man watch them or exposing a penis to them.

Good to have that confirmed

Yes they do
Single sex spaces are just that

Single sex
Stop telling people what their rights are. You have a very shaky and misunderstood concept of the law.

Who’d feel safe sharing anything with this lot

Disgusting

so called ‘nice people’…. 🤣🤣 celebrating this sort of hate on anyone that doesn’t agree with them

Off to make soda bread
Hows that fence going @NeverOneBiscuit , nice day for it
😊

I cannot imagine such an interaction taking place and me standing around to listen to somebody giving me their unsolicited opinions.

Ooh, love soda bread.

Nearly done with the fence, thanks. As you say, lovely day for it.

@DrPrunesqualer

I’m sure Tandora will say those naughty trans people are outliers, and/or that they have every right to wish death upon women for stopping them using their female only spaces.

Except it’ll be multidimensional, complex & on a spectrum 🔭🧫

Yep

Every thread is like Groundhog Day
🤣