About Gender neutral loo

[paulhollywoodshairgel]

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

Being trans is not a “pretence”. It doesn’t make someone a “bugger”. And it’s got nothing to do with “putting on a frock”.

People can see these statements for what they are- which is just the worst kind of prejudice .

What if what you think of as blue is at total odds to what everyone else thinks of as blue? What if you’re really seeing green but you’ve convinced yourself it’s blue. You’ll just look really really stupid.

You’ll just look really stupid? Not really- this happens all the time.

www.datacolor.com/business-solutions/blog/why-we-cant-agree-color-perception/

Why do you think babies are observed to be male or female at birth? Is it a wild guess, or something else? And there's no need to mention DSDs because that's nothing to do with 'transness'.

Of course it’s not a wild guess. It’s usually determined based on genitals, which almost always correspond with chromosomes, and both things almost always also correspond with someone’s awareness/ understanding of their sex as they grow. But in a minority of cases these different aspects of sex do not align. We know some things, but not all things, about why this happens, but we do know it happens. And it’s real. And it’s not trivial. Nor is it the fault of the individual affected.

Hey, it’s gone 9 and the router’s been turned back on!! 🤣🤣

Let the games commence.

Good luck for those joining the rollercoaster today. Y’all going to learn some crazy ‘science’. And some big words, maybe the biggest words 🤔🥗

You understand though that regardless of what goes on in their head relating to their awareness or understanding....they remain the same sex that they were observed at birth so in certain life circumstances they must remain in that category.

Everyone else cannot be expected to give up dignity and fairness just because they think something else.

@NapoleonsToe

The poster’s answer to everything is that trans women - men - are women because they say so. There’s no point engaging, it’s a fixed ideology with language mangled to make ridiculous statements. You’ll be scolded & patronised, but it is quite funny at times!

Assumptions behind your reasoning:

Observation of sex at birth is always correct.

Sex is a singular, fixed / immutable thing.

”what goes on in someone’s head” is not real/ material and fundamentally less significant than “what goes on in someone’s body”.

Body and mind are fundamentally distinct / separable things.

Accepting trans people for who they say they are requires everyone else to give up their “dignity”.

Accepting trans people for who they say they are creates an unfair society.

Let’s go through these assumptions one by one. Where did they come from? How did you arrive at them? What basis do you have for believing they are true?

I put to you that every single one of them is either wholly or at least partially wrong. At best they are all significant over simplifications.

It’s v odd that you think that’s my “answer for everything” when I don’t believe I’ve made that claim even once.

@blubberyboo

‘Everyone else cannot be expected to give up dignity & fairness just because they think something else.’

You’re absolutely right.

What you have to realise is that Tandora thinks that women should give up their single sex spaces, sports etc, ‘their dignity & fairness’ despite the fact that they ‘think something else.’ This thought is though of course a fact - that no man is ever a woman. But it’s the men that matter, not the women.

It’s the classic TRA position; women budge over because of what men say about themselves

No.

@NapoleonsToe

D’you see how it goes with this poster? It’s really pointless. They’ve never said what you tell them they’ve said. You don’t understand anything. There’s research you just don’t know about or understand. Words mean different things, but whatever you think it’s wrong.

Good luck 🤞

But it’s the men that matter, not the women.

It’s so odd when you make these claims. If one were to accept your premise that “transwomen are men”, then it follows that you think “transmen are women”. And yet you entirely ignore them. It’s like you think they don’t exist. From a “TRA” (as you like to call it) perspective Trans men matter every bit as much as trans women.

I remember reading that these parents had given their child a blank check which they expect society to cash for them. 🤔

They are responsible for their own decisions. It is not on you to make your daughter responsible for that parent's decision.

Observation of sex at birth is correct for nearly everyone and disorders of sex have nothing to do with being transgender. DSDs are sex specific and are a medical condition. Being transgender is not.

Reproductive sex cannot be changed. No man with testicles has ever grown ovaries.

For legal protections based on sex what goes on in someone's head is not of any interest. Sex is a material state of body.

For legal protections based on mind is complicated and difficult. Take religion for example. People with religious convictions are protected up to a certain level. You cannot deny services and goods based on religious feelings to other people, there is a high bar to be allowed that. Think the cake for a gay couple story.
Legal protections based on gender reassignment also have nothing to do with legal protections based on sex, they are two different characteristics and one doesn't cancel the other out.

Accepting trans people doesn't impact anyone else until boundaries are crossed and protections are taken away from other characteristics. This is what happens when gender reassignment is used to nullify sex based protections and that breaches womens human rights.

These statements come from the legal interpretation of the Equality Act, the European Charter of Human rights as well as medical statements.

Prove me wrong.

Yep.

They also appeal to unproven pseudoscientific theories they never seem quite able to explain or provide specific evidence for.

Good morning @Tandora

As you are so found of big words try these

do 'nice' women deserve the privacy, dignity and safety of single sex spaces in places where they are undressing?

Whatever people feel or think, their sex remains the same. Thoughts and feelings aren't an indicator of sex.

You're both right, I'll stop now

Absolutely.

And never, in all the years they’ve been on here with their peculiarly counter-factual black-is-white, up-is-down, left-is-right genderwang propaganda, have they been able to explain why safeguarding for women and girls should be abandoned because of the feeling (or ‘knowing’, as they would put it) of a man.

But they’ve done a sterling job of peaking so many, such is the absurdity of their ‘arguments’, which is great, as far as I’m concerned. .

Tandora: the usual blah, blah. Then of course trans men are wheeled out, who of course as women are perfectly entitled to use a female single sex space.

TRAs never gave a rat’s arse about trans men until the SC ruling. Now they’re just weaponised to accuse women of attempting to deny them access to women’s spaces. This was exactly what was predicted would happen.

So well done. You’re following the script perfectly.

😎

@GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen

I’m going to predict that your answer will depend upon what Tandora has decided is meant by ‘nice ‘women’ & ‘deserve.’

I mean come on, this is 2025, you can’t just assume that a word has a stable meaning. If men want to use female single sex spaces things need to be jazzed up a bit, rearranged, turned inside out. If I was nicer I’d use the word obfuscation, but lying will do.

There’s a lovely guy on X (don’t know if he’s still there, I don’t use it anymore) who has a DSD condition. He opened an account solely to counteract the misuse of his medical condition by those advocating self ID, using DSDs to say sex isn’t binary, that he was a 3rd sex - all the usual guff.

He occasionally had to take a break as he got so much abuse from TRAs & their allies. I really admired him. He had direct lived experience, a wealth of knowledge, and dealt day in day out with the misinformation such as we see posted on this thread.

@NeverOneBiscuit
you've clearly had a hearty breakfast and coffee this morning
👏