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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About Gender neutral loo

1000 replies

paulhollywoodshairgel · 14/08/2025 18:59

I was in a museum today and my daughter (15) left me to go to the loo. She then waved me over.. she said to me.. I’d rather not use the gender neutral loo. I said that’s fine and sent her down a level to the ladies. A woman the approached me and preceded to tell me off for not encouraging my daughter to use the GN loo. How she has a trans child and how are they ever going to feel accepted with people like me around. I’m ND and I always second guess myself 10000 times a day. I wasn’t in the wrong was I?? I just said ok go and use the other separate loo. Surely my child can pee wherever she feels comfortable??!! I hate conflict so I just said ok and walked off!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 17:59

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 17:57

Tandora is only a fan of the guidelines when they are in Tandora's favour.

Tandora doesn't like the fact that they have had many deletions for breaking guidelines with far more offensive things. Such as calling women who want single sex spaces and the upholding of their legal protections fascists for example.

Cute and silly unicorns aren't even in the same league as some of what's been said to us from certain posters over the years.

best to rise above it 💐🥃

NeverOneBiscuit · 15/08/2025 18:02

@CohensDiamondTeeth

Maybe if it had been a complex multidimensional unicorn on a spectrum it would have been more palatable to some 😉😉

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 18:04

Tandora · 15/08/2025 17:55

Except the only reason you think I’m a “bad faith” poster is because I disagree with you 🤷🏼‍♀️

No it's not.

I think you're a bad faith poster because you use psuedo scientific word salad to attempt to convince others that you are smarter and know more than they do.

I think you're a bad faith poster because you think women are fascists if they are intent on preserving their rights, sports, rape crises centres, prisons, healthcare etc.

I think you're a bad faith poster because you keep telling us there is evidence to back up your really out there claims, but never actually post anything to support that now since the few links you have shared (last year or the year before is the last time I can remember any links being shared, but I'm iffy on the when) were debunked quickly as bad science (with detailed refutations) or opinion pieces which weren't relevant (opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one).

I think you're a bad faith poster because you distract and obfuscate, you move discussion goalposts and pivot while refusing to actually meaningfully engage in the discussions.

There's a lot of reasons I have to think you are a bad faith poster, and not one of them is because you disagree with me.

You are funny though, nice try! 😂

MeadowMouse · 15/08/2025 18:07

You did nothing wrong.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 18:07

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 17:59

best to rise above it 💐🥃

You're probably right, I just think Tandora's posting style deserves a little attention, I'm sure Tandora is quite enjoying Tandora's self as usual 😂

Lucyccfc68 · 15/08/2025 18:09

DisforDarkChocolate · 14/08/2025 19:11

You were far nicer than I would have been. Fuck off my daughter isn't here to validate your child's delusions is what come to my mind. Being kind kills women in many many ways.

Absolutely agree. Teenage girls should not be forced to use mixed sex toilets to appease others.

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:09

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 17:57

Tandora is only a fan of the guidelines when they are in Tandora's favour.

Tandora doesn't like the fact that they have had many deletions for breaking guidelines with far more offensive things. Such as calling women who want single sex spaces and the upholding of their legal protections fascists for example.

Cute and silly unicorns aren't even in the same league as some of what's been said to us from certain posters over the years.

I didn’t say “I’m a fan of the guidelines”, I simply pointed out that what you posted was deleted for breaking them.

I stand by my posts. I also don’t think it’s ok to bully people for disagreeing with you.

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:11

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 18:04

No it's not.

I think you're a bad faith poster because you use psuedo scientific word salad to attempt to convince others that you are smarter and know more than they do.

I think you're a bad faith poster because you think women are fascists if they are intent on preserving their rights, sports, rape crises centres, prisons, healthcare etc.

I think you're a bad faith poster because you keep telling us there is evidence to back up your really out there claims, but never actually post anything to support that now since the few links you have shared (last year or the year before is the last time I can remember any links being shared, but I'm iffy on the when) were debunked quickly as bad science (with detailed refutations) or opinion pieces which weren't relevant (opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one).

I think you're a bad faith poster because you distract and obfuscate, you move discussion goalposts and pivot while refusing to actually meaningfully engage in the discussions.

There's a lot of reasons I have to think you are a bad faith poster, and not one of them is because you disagree with me.

You are funny though, nice try! 😂

All of these things are things you believe because I say things you don’t agree with and don’t want to hear 🤷🏼‍♀️.

TheKeatingFive · 15/08/2025 18:13

Everyone's timely reminder that any deviation from the topic of this thread is playing into Tandora's hands.

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 18:16

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:09

I didn’t say “I’m a fan of the guidelines”, I simply pointed out that what you posted was deleted for breaking them.

I stand by my posts. I also don’t think it’s ok to bully people for disagreeing with you.

Jennifer Lawrence Thumbs Up GIF

Gosh thank you!

I shall go cry shame filled and contrite into my tea! Sharing an image of a cute and silly cartoon unicorn is clear evidence of my being a terrible, awful bully, and clearly makes me an even worse person than those who have helped remove protections from women and children in service to men with special unprovable feelings in their heads. I mean, really, when you put it like that I should be very, very ashamed of myself shouldn't I? 🙄

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 18:18

I will take the removed sign to heart and try to stop engaging with the interrupteron now 😂

Theunamedcat · 15/08/2025 18:19

Ruggerlass · 14/08/2025 19:08

Of course your daughter can chose to use a ladies only loo, but tbh if the gender neutral loo has self-contained cubicles I don’t really see what the issue is. A lot of cafes, restaurants etc, particularly small ones only have one loo. The women who approached you was out of order though.

She was uncomfortable its completely valid to feel uncomfortable you shouldn't need to go out of your way to make other people comfortable at the expense of your own feelings

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:20

CohensDiamondTeeth · 15/08/2025 18:16

Gosh thank you!

I shall go cry shame filled and contrite into my tea! Sharing an image of a cute and silly cartoon unicorn is clear evidence of my being a terrible, awful bully, and clearly makes me an even worse person than those who have helped remove protections from women and children in service to men with special unprovable feelings in their heads. I mean, really, when you put it like that I should be very, very ashamed of myself shouldn't I? 🙄

👍🏻

movvving on.

Back to the thread. I cannot imagine any parent of a trans child doing this or why on earth they would. The last thing a parent of a trans child would want to do is “out” or draw attention to their child in any way.

And why on earth would they care about what toilet someone else is using?
This is exactly the type of thing (intrusive interest in policing who’s using what loo) that people who love and care about trans people (especially children) are trying to prevent.

There must be more to this story. Can you break in down in more detail for us OP?

NeverOneBiscuit · 15/08/2025 18:27

Agree, it’s always a deviation.

Anyone here who’s new to Tandora will see a classic example of their ‘debating’ style in their response to Cohen’s detailed well thought out post. A couple of lines of blah, blah.

I’m still waiting for their explanation of why trans gender is ‘real’ but trans age is not? Why a man can be believed if he says he’s a female, but not a 6 year old female.

Apparently it’s just a one off case on the internet, so can’t be addressed. Of course the point is not about the individual, but if Tandora admitted that they’d have to address the actual question. Which they won’t.

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 18:31
toilet peeing GIF

Just one of the reasons for women only toilets 😁

NeverOneBiscuit · 15/08/2025 18:33

As I alluded to earlier, that’s not my experience of a parent with a trans child. It’s a litany of apparent misgendering, non availability of spaces that they feel comfortable with, policing other people’s language. This is the mother & the child, & includes policing our language around them, even if they’re not there.

I avoid them wherever possible, as their selfishness, entitlement & rudeness is something to behold.

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:36

NeverOneBiscuit · 15/08/2025 18:27

Agree, it’s always a deviation.

Anyone here who’s new to Tandora will see a classic example of their ‘debating’ style in their response to Cohen’s detailed well thought out post. A couple of lines of blah, blah.

I’m still waiting for their explanation of why trans gender is ‘real’ but trans age is not? Why a man can be believed if he says he’s a female, but not a 6 year old female.

Apparently it’s just a one off case on the internet, so can’t be addressed. Of course the point is not about the individual, but if Tandora admitted that they’d have to address the actual question. Which they won’t.

I’m still waiting for their explanation of why trans gender is ‘real’ but trans age is not? Why a man can be believed if he says he’s a female, but not a 6 year old female

I’ve answered this repeatedly. Because there’s mountains of evidence that one thing (being transgender) exists : evidenced by vast amounts of research (see the 100,000s of peer review academic and scientific and medical papers published) , recognition in law of trans people , and health services dedicated to providing medical care to trans people across the world.

Meanwhile the only evidence that the other thing (being trans-aged) exists is a few random videos on YouTube (maybe the odd tabloid article) of some weird individual allegedly claiming to be a 6 year old girl and such like.

It’s like saying “why should I believe that Jupiter is a planet and not believe in aliens”. WHY!
And me replying that because there’s loads of scientific evidence about one, and no evidence of the other apart from the odd weirdo on YouTube who claims to have seen aliens.
then you tell me this isn’t a satisfactory reply and demand I answer the same question over and over and over again and falsely claim I’ve refused to answer.

Exhausting.

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:41

NeverOneBiscuit · 15/08/2025 18:33

As I alluded to earlier, that’s not my experience of a parent with a trans child. It’s a litany of apparent misgendering, non availability of spaces that they feel comfortable with, policing other people’s language. This is the mother & the child, & includes policing our language around them, even if they’re not there.

I avoid them wherever possible, as their selfishness, entitlement & rudeness is something to behold.

When you refer to “policing other people’s language” do you mean the basic, universal courtesy of addressing / referring to people using words that are experienced as respectful and non offensive to them?

DrPrunesqualer · 15/08/2025 18:43

Another reminder that this thread is about a women being rude to OP because her daughter wanted to use a different and single sex toilet.

BoredZelda · 15/08/2025 18:48

What is clear here, is nobody posting “intel” or “research” has the first clue about what good research is.

Using a load of media links to press reports means very little. It proves only that women are being assaulted by men. That we already know, and for the most part the venue is irrelevant to the issue being discussed here. The key question is, are these attacks more or less common since GN spaces became more available. Not, are more taking place in these spaces, but are the attacks more common. E.g if 100 women were being attacked before GN spaces and 100 women are being attacked after GN spaces, reverting back to single sex spaces might make a woman feel safe but her risk of being attacked remains the same, it just would happen outside of that particular space. How many attacks were taking place in SS spaces before v how many are taking place in SS spaces now?

Of course there is a rise in the number of women surveyed who would prefer a SS space. To suggest this is directly attributed to a rise in attacks is false. First off, we haven’t established an actual rise in attacks, but even if we did, would that rise be enough to want someone to express a preference for SS spaces? Secondly, how can we say the actual number of attacks has any bearing at all on their preference? Isn’t it far more likely that someone who hasn’t looked in to anything in any depth, but is bombarded daily with rhetoric on social media about how wrong GN spaces are, will say they want SS spaces. It’s a common phenomenon where people express a fear of crime which is totally out of sync with actual crime numbers and that is attributed to what they are being fed on TV, in the news, on social media. If you are told an area you are in is unsafe, you will hurry through it and report it felt unsafe.

Until someone points to “then and now” research of statistics which have been contextualised and adjusted for norms, saying GN spaces have led to an increase in attacks on women.

What is clear is, the only reason this is a hot button issue is to feed the culture wars that benefit some people either in power or trying to be, and those people have absolutely no interest in protecting women.

EasternStandard · 15/08/2025 18:49

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:36

I’m still waiting for their explanation of why trans gender is ‘real’ but trans age is not? Why a man can be believed if he says he’s a female, but not a 6 year old female

I’ve answered this repeatedly. Because there’s mountains of evidence that one thing (being transgender) exists : evidenced by vast amounts of research (see the 100,000s of peer review academic and scientific and medical papers published) , recognition in law of trans people , and health services dedicated to providing medical care to trans people across the world.

Meanwhile the only evidence that the other thing (being trans-aged) exists is a few random videos on YouTube (maybe the odd tabloid article) of some weird individual allegedly claiming to be a 6 year old girl and such like.

It’s like saying “why should I believe that Jupiter is a planet and not believe in aliens”. WHY!
And me replying that because there’s loads of scientific evidence about one, and no evidence of the other apart from the odd weirdo on YouTube who claims to have seen aliens.
then you tell me this isn’t a satisfactory reply and demand I answer the same question over and over and over again and falsely claim I’ve refused to answer.

Exhausting.

Hmm. Loads of people do say they feel younger than they are. We don’t change birth certificates on that feeling.

MyLimeGuide · 15/08/2025 18:50

I dont understand this tandora talk but quite frankly the mum of the so called trans child deserves an upper cut for her pure idiocy.

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:53

EasternStandard · 15/08/2025 18:49

Hmm. Loads of people do say they feel younger than they are. We don’t change birth certificates on that feeling.

Someone saying they feel younger than they are is not the same as literally “knowing/ perceiving) oneself to be a different age (which would be the age equivalent to being transgender - if there were such an equivalent- there is no evidence that there is ). I often feel a lot older than I am, it doesn’t mean literally think I am in fact older than I am.

MyLimeGuide · 15/08/2025 18:54

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:36

I’m still waiting for their explanation of why trans gender is ‘real’ but trans age is not? Why a man can be believed if he says he’s a female, but not a 6 year old female

I’ve answered this repeatedly. Because there’s mountains of evidence that one thing (being transgender) exists : evidenced by vast amounts of research (see the 100,000s of peer review academic and scientific and medical papers published) , recognition in law of trans people , and health services dedicated to providing medical care to trans people across the world.

Meanwhile the only evidence that the other thing (being trans-aged) exists is a few random videos on YouTube (maybe the odd tabloid article) of some weird individual allegedly claiming to be a 6 year old girl and such like.

It’s like saying “why should I believe that Jupiter is a planet and not believe in aliens”. WHY!
And me replying that because there’s loads of scientific evidence about one, and no evidence of the other apart from the odd weirdo on YouTube who claims to have seen aliens.
then you tell me this isn’t a satisfactory reply and demand I answer the same question over and over and over again and falsely claim I’ve refused to answer.

Exhausting.

Agree. An ideology like trans humans is on par with unknown/unseen planets in the universe, or like magic, unicorns etc.

Tandora · 15/08/2025 18:55

MyLimeGuide · 15/08/2025 18:54

Agree. An ideology like trans humans is on par with unknown/unseen planets in the universe, or like magic, unicorns etc.

Well you have obviously misrepresented my post: either because you misunderstood it or on purpose to manipulate the conversation

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