Hostile and entitled man hijacking my table

[BluntPlumHam]

I stopped to have some lunch at a busy market where there is a lot of seating however often taken up so some waiting around.

Often a woman dining on her own or having coffee may ask to share a table which I always agree to.

I was sat at a table for 4 already eating.

Man and woman approach and ask if they can share my table.

I asked is it just you two and pointed at the seats opposite me and he nodded. So I said ok because it was super busy.

Seconds later a third person joins and I’m now encircled by their group. I took my headphones out and said hang on you didn’t say there were three of you?

He immediately got hostile and red in the face and said you need to go find a table for one person.

I put my cutlery down and said you need to move. He started blathering on about being allowed to voice his opinion and I just said no and firmly said leave because I wasn’t about to engage in a discussion or argument with this man child.

He started throwing a tantrum exclaiming that he’s not leaving puffing his chest out etc and his wife was trying to calm him down and kept apologising to me. He was clearly ready to have a stand off with me. I just turned to her, your husband is hostile, harassing me now and I want you to all leave to which she eventually said ok and that we will go find another table. He reluctantly left but not without trying to start a fight with me I just remained firm and resilient. Just kept repeating sternly you all need to leave now and find another table.

Wife was visibly embarrassed by his behaviour and grabbed my arm and sincerely apologised.

I just feel that a certain culture of general hostility towards women is being normalised in this day and age. Although I initially allowed him to sit there when I realised this was a group I revoked that permission but men can’t take a no for an answer.

Despite me doing them a favour and letting them sit there he had the audacity to get angry with me when I questioned the third person and tell me to go find another table midway my food. They did not have their food yet.

Men feel entitled to encroach and stay in women’s personal space even when bluntly told to go. Would it have been different had I been a man, absolutely.

AIBU for making them leave.

As soon as they came to sit near her, it became her business. In stating that you’d have ignored her, you’re saying that you wouldn’t have reacted like the man but yet can’t seem to admit his behaviour was inappropriate. I assume you’d be on his side if it was your daughter or your mum he’d spoken to like that?

My mother is dead and my daughter would be so rude to anyone in a crowded food hall so it would never happen.

This thread is a great example of why a lot of people need to brush up on their reading comprehension before commenting. Nowhere do I say that people are arguing about whether 2 or 3 people are okay, the issue is people focusing on her ‘entitlement’ in deciding who sits where and ignoring the key point where a grown man displays extremely rude and intimidating behaviour over a CAFE TABLE.

She could’ve told him her three non-existent friends were in the bathroom and they would’ve had to go elsewhere, so while she doesn’t ’own’ the table, the power of who sits there is transferred to the person who got there first. The fact I need to explain basic social norms makes me think some people don’t venture outside very often.

The bottom line is:

1. OP has the right to be internally annoyed about having to sit in the middle of a three way conversation but as you said, her happiness is irrelevant and she knew she didn’t have the right to refuse them access to the seats, which she didn’t.
2. She also has a right to ask the man a simple follow up question after he lied to her face. He absolutely does NOT have the right to become aggressive.
3. She then has the right to protect her safety and ask the party to move after the man rants and raves to point of needing his wife to hold him back and apologise.

Not sure what part of this is up for debate?? 😅

That should have been wouldn't.

Typical obtuse MN response. I feel sorry for your daughter if she’s been brought up learning the appropriate reaction to a simple question is abuse and aggression.

"She could’ve told him her three non-existent friends were in the bathroom and they would’ve had to go elsewhere, so while she doesn’t ’own’ the table, the power of who sits there is transferred to the person who got there first. The fact I need to explain basic social norms makes me think some people don’t venture outside very often."

When the couple approached her she could have said her three friends were in the bathroom, they weren't and she didn't and four paying customer sat down to eat a meal and one decided she was table monitor for the day.

You shouldn't hog a seat with your bag. Your not paying for a ticket, for your bag to get a seat.
People shouldn't need to ask other people to remove bags so they can sit down, I find it extremely selfish and rude behaviour on pubkic transport.

My post is conveying that if you booked three cleaners then you should expect three cleaners and not consider yourself a victim of your choice to book three cleaners.

The rest of your post is thinly veiled xenophobia and/or racism.

A lesson on ''how to win friends and influence people''.

Thank you.

God I’m sick of you picking apart, twisting and inserting your irrelevant things to back up your own argument (like comparing the café to Wagamama- knowing part of Wagamama’s ‘thing’ that sets them apart is communal seating in parts of their dining area). All the way through the thread.
This particular post you’ve quoted was 100% correct and now you’re having a go because you can’t comprehend that the OP, being a lone woman, couldn’t possibly have felt hemmed in, intimidated or just plain fucked off at the attempt to do so, because she was confident in speaking up for herself.

OP's breasts are her personal space, agreed. Tables and chairs that don't belong to the OP are not her personal space.

I've never eaten in a 'food court' and after getting to page 3 of this thread, I probably never will. Who wants to eat with strangers? Weird. Just viewing other people's table manners from a distance is bad enough. I have never been asked if people can share my table, and I would never ask anyone that.

I've made a mental note now to never eat anywhere you can't book in advance.

Food Courts are fine if it's quiet. The advantage is that if you're with others, you can get your meals of choice from different places and still sit together to eat.

He shouldn’t have shouted you were unreasonable it’s fine for them to share a table in that circumstance and YABU.

I suspect he abuses his wife unfortunately.

Something very similar happened to me a while ago. A couple came over to the table where I was (eating on my own), asking if they could join me as it was a busy place. I said no worries, i had struggled myself to find a free table when i got my food, as i didn't have anyone to "hold" the table for me (it was a food court, with multiple outlets). Almost immediately a third person sat next to me and started talking to them about their order number being very far away from the one on display as being served so it might be a while. Then i went, yes, right, we were just saying how busy it is, mainly by people waiting for their orders and not actually eating yet, lol.
So i kind of became perhaps too chatty for their liking because when their number was up (I was still eating), they found another table of four and left me, not before saying thank you. Shortly after that, I finished my food, and went past their table on my way to the bins, and we nodded to each other as a kind of goodbye.
I guess the main difference is that I was ready to share, and didn't get aggressive when the third person joined. So there was no issue that could escalate.

Absolutely my point

you Don’t like my posts? Too bad
My posts as legitimate and I’ll continue to,post, I won’t change the tone

The opposite to xenophobia is xenophilia, which is a love of strange people and foreigners.

Which are you? Can anyone be one or the other, or is there a middle?

There are two types of people in the world: law abiding and criminals. They come in all shapes and sizes, colours and creeds.

You have to learn to tell them apart. Crime is not a case of colour or creed or size. Criminals come in all of those.

I don't know for what reason you are so against what I said, but for the sake of posters who read posts, they should be aware that British nationals do not need a work permit to work in this country and will gladly show theirs if you ask.

Workers from abroad, however, who are not nationals, have to have a permit to work in Britain, and you should ask to see their permit if they cannot speak to you in English. They will flee if they are working illegally. It matters not what colour they are, or where they come from.

If you employ casual workers for cleaning contracts and they cannot show you their right to work here, then you must report them to the authorities, because they may be working as slaves, for agencies who fly in vulnerable people for a few weeks, squeeze all their energy, send them back and get another lot.

If you are a xenophiliac, then I feel sorry for you, because you will love anyone with a foreign accent who you meet.

This is nonsense.

Firstly, as a British citizen, I wouldn’t for a single second show you proof of that because you hysterically think I might be foreign. Not for one second. In fact, I don’t take any proof of my citizenship with me when I go to work. None.

Secondly, I have not and would never ask anyone for proof of their eligibility to work in the UK unless I were employing them (because that’s the law). Why on earth do you think we “should” do that?!

Thirdly, you weren’t employing them.

Fourthly, and most importantly, your point has changed substantially from the initial point which was that you booked three cleaners then complained that three cleaners came.

You are one person. You booked three cleaners. Three is more than one. You can’t complain that you were “outnumbered” when you chose to be.

hang on, you're suggesting you need to explain "basic social norms" to me, right after suggesting OP could have LIED to them about 3 imaginary friends all going to the toilet at the same time. Which would have "transferred the power" 🤣🤣 back to her? Until presumably they realised that several minutes later none of said friends had emerged and she was now not only rude with a bizarre entitlement to not sharing "her" table, but a lying weirdo, "transferred power" or not?

Yes that's a completely normal thing to do and not at all an overreaction to someone asking to share a table.

I suggest she could’ve (not should’ve) lied about saving the table for her friends to illustrate that whether you like it or not, the person who gets the table first becomes the primary (not sole) decision maker in who occupies the rest of the seats. The social norm is that the person has to ask the one already seated whether it’s ok to join them, putting the person sitting in a position of ‘power’. Perfectly illustrated by the OP’s mention of the BF woman who said no when people asked to join her table. What part of that are you not getting??

It’s pretty funny that OP would be a ‘lying weirdo’ in this hypothetical situation but the guy who actually lied in this real life situation is totally fine 😂 And also that hypothetical lying is a total overreaction to being asked a simple question but I’m yet to hear any objection to a grown man becoming angry and threatening when he’s asked one. People on here say anything just to be right, it’s so ridiculous 😅

Yes it's ok if you can clearly see there's plenty of spare room & tables, if you're out & about & need refreshments
There's always exceptions to every rule, thankfully
Praise God, we needn't have black & white mindsets 💚🤗💚

😂😂😂😂😂

Now. Imagine that OP is at the table and someone tries to sit at a completely empty table next to her. OP lies to them and says “oh, please don’t sit there, the mother and baby there have just gone to the baby change”. Now, those people would sit elsewhere and the table next to OP would remain empty. Are you saying, by your logic that OP could lie about imaginary people in the toilet, she has the right to dictate the whole restaurant?

Obviously not. Because the whole point you’ve made is nonsense.

I am astounded that you should show such ? ? in public, even though no one can identify you.

For the sake of posters needing information and clarification, I will explain more, but it grieves me to do so when I know I am being trolled.

It was the first and last time I would employ them, because I felt outnumbered, intimidated in my own home. I would never do it again. You seem to think I was unreasonable. I did not know I would feel outnumbered: why would I, not having done that before?

I employed a cleaning company to clean my house. They quoted a price for the job, not an hourly rate, but I still employ them. I didn't know that they didn't speak a word of English so I could not tell them what to do. That was suspicious.

Did you know that you can be blamed for employing someone if it turns out they did not have a permit to work in UK? Employers can be held liable for employing individuals who lack the legal right to work in UK, regardless of whether they are casual or permanent employees. This includes situations where the employer didn't conduct proper ''right to work'' checks, even if the lack of authorisation was unintentional. Penalties can include significant fines, and in some cases, even criminal prosecution.

I have employed self employed carers/cleaners for a long time. My best carers are immigrants from other countries. I have to know where they come from and whether they have the right to work here. They have to be certified as having a driving licence, insurance, and a clean criminal record certificate from the Police.

They need that in order to work in other people's houses.

Carers usually need a care certificate. I am prepared to train the right person to my own needs, so long as they are legally able to work in UK. I like also to satisfy myself that they are self employed. They don't have to tell me how much they earn or how much tax they pay, but I am able to know if they are known to the DWP.

Nothing has changed from my original post. I employed someone to clean who came with two other people. I was expecting three, you are right. I also indicated in my first post that I felt outnumbered in my own house and would never employ three - or even two - again.

That was the whole point, my empathy with the OP, how she felt, because I felt the same when I employed that trio. I made it clear I would not employ them again.