Hostile and entitled man hijacking my table

[BluntPlumHam]

I stopped to have some lunch at a busy market where there is a lot of seating however often taken up so some waiting around.

Often a woman dining on her own or having coffee may ask to share a table which I always agree to.

I was sat at a table for 4 already eating.

Man and woman approach and ask if they can share my table.

I asked is it just you two and pointed at the seats opposite me and he nodded. So I said ok because it was super busy.

Seconds later a third person joins and I’m now encircled by their group. I took my headphones out and said hang on you didn’t say there were three of you?

He immediately got hostile and red in the face and said you need to go find a table for one person.

I put my cutlery down and said you need to move. He started blathering on about being allowed to voice his opinion and I just said no and firmly said leave because I wasn’t about to engage in a discussion or argument with this man child.

He started throwing a tantrum exclaiming that he’s not leaving puffing his chest out etc and his wife was trying to calm him down and kept apologising to me. He was clearly ready to have a stand off with me. I just turned to her, your husband is hostile, harassing me now and I want you to all leave to which she eventually said ok and that we will go find another table. He reluctantly left but not without trying to start a fight with me I just remained firm and resilient. Just kept repeating sternly you all need to leave now and find another table.

Wife was visibly embarrassed by his behaviour and grabbed my arm and sincerely apologised.

I just feel that a certain culture of general hostility towards women is being normalised in this day and age. Although I initially allowed him to sit there when I realised this was a group I revoked that permission but men can’t take a no for an answer.

Despite me doing them a favour and letting them sit there he had the audacity to get angry with me when I questioned the third person and tell me to go find another table midway my food. They did not have their food yet.

Men feel entitled to encroach and stay in women’s personal space even when bluntly told to go. Would it have been different had I been a man, absolutely.

AIBU for making them leave.

Il sure the business owner was delighted that you had claimed four seats instead of one

This is insane. I would feel incredibly uncomfortable if 3 people sat at a table for 4 when I was already sat there.

If 2 people wanted to sit with me I wouldn't be happy but it's fair enough in a very busy place with no tables. As they would be next to me, I could pretend they aren't there!

Having a complete stranger sit opposite you at a table would be incredibly uncomfortable. It's quite intimate, as you are quite close and face to face and it's something you do with family and friends. It's just not something I have ever seen anyone do and I don't know why people on Mumsnet pretend it's the done thing. Weird.

Your preference to solo dine really doesn’t need to be accommodated by everyone else, of course diners will sit at under occupied table. If you don’t want joined by others don’t solo dine at a table for 4. It’s that simple. Your sensitivities about proximity etc are an affectation that you cannot expect others to indulge

it really is the norm to table share in busy establishments

@CoffeeLipstickKeys

Thanks for your opinion on my 'sensitivities'. 😂

However, I have never had anyone in my almost 60 years ask to sit opposite me at a table. Next to me, yes. So I'll happily keep on indulging my 'affectation' in the secure knowledge that in the real world people rarely behave as people in Mumsnet world say they do.

Off to a cafe for brunch shortly, have a lovely weekend everyone.

Im wondering why the OP didn't go sit with the sympathetic breastfeeding lady and let the group have the table? I'm mean, she doesn't have to move but that would the solution if she was so uncomfortable being "surrounded" by three people.

You know your experience isn't the only one? Plenty of us have had versions of this.

Good you can muster a laugh with all your sensitivities and need for no one in proximity. Not so good you have a world view skewed by your sensitivities And foibles

You do realise that OP demanded that they sit opposite her and had her tantrum because someone wanted to sit opposite her, right?

I wonder why she was happy to be (in your words) “intimate”, “quite close” and “face to face” with a stranger but couldn’t possibly cope with them being somewhere that she (in your words, again) “could pretend they don’t exist”.

Youve argued pretty aggressively that your viewpoint is the norm and the standard. Yet you’re defending OP having the exact opposite opinion. Your choice now that has been pointed out is either to accept that OP is unreasonable because, according to what you’ve dictated is normal and reasonable behaviour, she was wrong or you could say that different people find different things uncomfortable and that, therefore, if OP finds other people doing normal things uncomfortable then she should avoid putting herself in those situations.

If that’s how you feel, @WhatHoJeeves, then sitting in a busy market isn’t for you. Neither is sitting in public transport.

What you should do instead is choose a more formal dining setting willing to accept your reservation and use private transport options.

Since the OP was at a bustling market, it was rather entitled and very silly of her to think she could prevent others from using the available seating.

The guy wasn’t right to get rude and aggressive, but, equally, knowing what market ‘street food’ eating situations are like a spare chair is a spare chair and many a time I have happily carried on whilst sharing a table with others in this type of setting. I think in this setting taking a 4 person table for one of you and not understating that you might end up with three people around you given the busy situation and lack of seating is unreasonable. Get noise cancelling headphones and crack on. I agree with other comments, the table, in this setting, is a public amenity and not ‘owned’ by you simply because you sat down first.

take a book so you dont have to look at them

I'm not sure there is such a thing as personal space in a cafe. Women can usually cope with this kind of thing.

Well she was only mentioned later on, like the unapproached man with the laptop.

Completely agree with this. Very entitled of OP to think that she can have a 4 person table to herself. Also to think she is doing other people a favour when they ask if ok to share table. If there are empty seats at a table that are not being used, then anyone should be allowed to use them, whether male or female. Public seating is not usually gender specific, unlike female only spaces such as changing rooms or ladies only swimming sessions etc.

If you were hemmed into booth style seating by a group of 3, I understand that feeling of "being taken over". I would feel uncomfortable being the sole person sharing a table with others in a group and more so in booth seating.

He clearly shouldn't have got aggressive and puffy chested with you.

But in a busy food market to occupy a table for 4 and preventing others from sitting and eating, acting as if you are "doing someone a favour" for allowing them to sit is pretty princess and entitled. I could imagine the food stalls being unimpressed if multiple tables of 4 are being taken up by single diners and larger groups end up walking away because they are "not allowed" to sit down and dine.

None of her business. Free seats and people sit down. She isn't the seat police. She was rude to challenge him and id have ignored her.

I don't go to cafes alone, normally with DH or DD or a friend but I do often travel by train by myself. The norm on the trains I use is if you are sitting alone someone looking for a seat asks if the seat is taken, if it isn't they sit down, they don't ask permission because of course they don't need it.

I'm trying to picture a crowded train, the elderly/disabled/someone holding a baby having to stand because someone hogging 4 seats and refusing to let them sit down. No can't see it.

Of course there’s still personal space in a cafe… if he had fondled OP’s breasts then that would’ve been violating it. Sitting at her table, not so much

If you are eating in a market place it’s not like the Ritz where obviously you wouldn’t sit with other people. In a crowded market every seat is for sitting on and you are acting very snobbish and entitled to think that nobody else should sit there. Don’t eat in market places with common people if you feel that strongly. I suggest you go somewhere more exclusive away from the great unwashed!

I sort of do that on the train if I have 2 year old GC with me. I pay for me and child's ticket for him and book two seats. He doesn't need a ticket due to age. I don't do it to just go shopping in nearby town but for a 3 hour journey it is definitely worth it.

Just to add sometimes I book one seat in first class if it's cheaper than two in standard because there are almost always seats in first class so can use the free seat next to me.

I disagree that most people have missed the point, if anything you have.

People aren't arguing whether op was right or wrong to be okay with 2 people not 3. The people criticising her are pointing out that it doesn't really matter what her preference was, she was coming at it from the POV of it being HER table thus she had the right to decide who can/can't sit there, which the man was clearly irked by before she got to the point of telling him to leave.

She is perfectly within her rights to be happy for 2 people but not 3, or one woman but not a group of men etc. But the point people are making is that ultimately her happiness with the situation is irrelevant, just because she sat there first doesn't mean she owns the table.

While you say the polite (not compulsory) RESPONSE is to say yes, the man probably thinks the polite (not compulsory) part is the asking - OP can say no but equally if she did he could say "well we were only asking to be polite, and to check nobody was joining you, the seats are free so we're going to sit here anyway."

The location is the most important thing here - in a restaurant if some random sat down at "your" table you can appeal to a member of staff or manager. On a park bench or free seating at a market like here it's tough luck.

You have no right to monopolise seats. Are you one of those people who, on a train, sits i the aisle seat with a bag on the window seat so no one can sit there?

Of course they can..they just have to ask. I'll sit like that because it's my preference but I will always move it if asked or before if the train us getting busy.

I got up to go to work one morning and my legs gave way. It was the start of a nightmare that I hope you and your friends/familie never have to deal with. Do you think I wouldn't like to be free of this neurological disease and run, skip, and jump like you?

If you had read my post you would see that I cannot do the housework. I have carers who are immigrants. They make the best carers. There is absolutely no complaint about them. Currently, my carer of six years - all through the lockdown - now is fighting terminal cancer, though still comes on social visits.

I have had carers from South Africa, Zimbabwe, Ghana, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Rwanda, China, all of whom have been really caring. I know so much more about the world.

I took advantage of the thread to give my experience and a warning to anyone who is not able to do deep cleans, not to be outnumbered in their own homes.

The cleaning company workers I described are not to be trusted.

Ah I see it was a booth ..I’d not like that at all .
I wouldn’t wish to be hemmed in by 3 people I didn’t know at all , especially when one seemed so hostile .
A large open table , absolutely fine in a busy food court / food market environment.