Page 17 | What do you think of this ultimatum from Fiance?

Pladi · 2025-08-13T18:02:39+00:00

Fiancé and I met in our mid 20s in London. He is Norwegian. I have always been completely upfront that I would never even contemplate living in Norway. Not even Oslo. I must have made this clear from around the 2nd month of dating. Fiancé accepted that as he hated growing up in a fairly small town anyway. Since becoming engaged fiancé has requested that we live in Oslo for a year after we marry. Just as an experience. I have said absolutely bloody not. There’s a long list of reasons why I wouldn’t consider this. Fiancé is “confused” as I did spend 18 months in Seattle for work. But Seattle (where I speak the language and am somewhat familiar with the culture) is a very different proposition to Oslo. Im not happy that he’s changing the goal posts despite the fact I have never been anything but brutally transparent. Ideally we would live in London for a couple more years then make the move to the burbs. I’m not being unreasonable, am I?

BigFatLiar · 14/08/2025 19:12

How does he feel about the plan to only stay in London for a couple of years then move to the suburbs?

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 19:14

steppemum · 14/08/2025 17:26

well, actually the 'give it a go' people have mostly said - do it before you get married and don't have any kids until you've done it.

Then if he won't move back, you come back alone. That is sad because it is the end of a relationship, but it isn't the end of the world.

If she hates it, that isn't a terrible thing. You know trying things and having a go at things does mean that sometimes we don't like what we try. But we learn through it, about oursleves and others, and our needs and choices.

But I can guarantee that if she goes with the attitude she has now, she will hate it. You have to go with an attitude of - this is my loved one's culture and country. This is what shaped them. How can I understand, get involved in and enjoy his culture?
Sometimes it is really tough. My dh's culture is VERY direct. Rude to my little English heart. Until I understood it, and realised it was direct and not offensive.
She is going to sometimes feel like an outsider. She is going to be outside of her comfort zone there. That isn't a bad thing, unless you then sit in a pity puddle and refuse to engage. Living overseas comes with challenges. Her partner has been experiencing all of those for the last 6 years. Maybe she needs to experience what he experienced to understand what he has given up for her.

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But he moved here. He had some pull to the UK. She has none for Norway. It is not the same.

I am from Scotland. I came to London and met my husband. I feel that it is profoundly unfair to move somewhere, meet someone, then expect them to move to your country.

EasternStandard · 14/08/2025 19:28

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 19:14

But he moved here. He had some pull to the UK. She has none for Norway. It is not the same.

I am from Scotland. I came to London and met my husband. I feel that it is profoundly unfair to move somewhere, meet someone, then expect them to move to your country.

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Same. If you move and meet someone and they say ok let’s do this but I’m not moving it’s pretty clear.

steppemum · 14/08/2025 19:29

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 19:14

But he moved here. He had some pull to the UK. She has none for Norway. It is not the same.

I am from Scotland. I came to London and met my husband. I feel that it is profoundly unfair to move somewhere, meet someone, then expect them to move to your country.

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If he does wnat her to move there, then yes, it would be a deal breaker.
For what it is worth, I think he probably is hoping that she likes it and wants to stay. Which looks unlikely from what OP has said.

The point I am trying to make in my posts though is that this is a relationship.
This relationship, whether you like it or not has 2 cultures in it.
Even if they choose to stay in the UK, there are still 2 cultures in it, and it is not OK to say I want nothing to do with your culture.
I am suggesting that she opens herself to explore his culture and learn more about him. To recognise that there are 2 cultures in this relationship. Because if they do go on and have kids, even if they stay in the UK, then he is going to want his kids ot know about his culture and language, and the messages from the OP suggest that she is not open to that.

That could include some time living in Norway. As someone in a cross cultural marriage I cannot tell you how important I think it is to live in your partner's culture for a while.

But the OP has the right to say, no thanks, I am not interested. That is also fine. But then that is probably the end of the relationship.

As another PP keeps saying, this doesn't have to be a blame game. It does however have to be an honest conversation.

steppemum · 14/08/2025 19:34

and for those saying but he hasn't given anything up because they met in UK where he chose to live.

Well, yes, as a young person in your 20s you might choose to live in many countries.
But then as someone in a serious relationship where you are planning on settling and having kids together, suddenly you are faced with not just living overseas for a while, but leaving behind everything from your own country and giving that up. You suddenly realise that your kids may not be able to talk to their grandparents, that your Mum isn't going to be able to babysit etc etc.

Suddenly it becomes more real, and you have to choose if it is something you want to do for life.
Yes he has changed his opinion since they met, but I am not surprised, I think it is a normal process. OP has to decide whether she wants to stay or not.

NameChangedForThis2025 · 14/08/2025 19:48

@steppemum exactly this.

It’s one thing living in the UK unattached, choosing to do so, but knowing you could return home whenever you wanted.

It’s quite another thing knowing you can’t just get on a plane anymore, that returning home is no longer just your decision, and that you may never return.

People saying “but he wouldn’t be sacrificing anything, he was already living there” don’t get it at all. You are absolutely sacrificing something when you commit to be with someone in another country.

I think they’ve both been naive about the implications of committing to someone from another country. But it’s hard to fully grasp until you’re faced with it.

BigFatLiar · 14/08/2025 20:01

The relationship is dead.

If I was him and had asked you to come to Oslo for a year and you said no never and the only option was to follow you to the suburbs of London then it would be over.

Let's face it he's less important to you than your family and friends and that's no basis for a long term relationship.

Does he have friends?

If he wants to spend a year in Oslo then that's fine, he can come back for weekends to see you if he wants.

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 20:26

steppemum · 14/08/2025 19:29

If he does wnat her to move there, then yes, it would be a deal breaker.
For what it is worth, I think he probably is hoping that she likes it and wants to stay. Which looks unlikely from what OP has said.

The point I am trying to make in my posts though is that this is a relationship.
This relationship, whether you like it or not has 2 cultures in it.
Even if they choose to stay in the UK, there are still 2 cultures in it, and it is not OK to say I want nothing to do with your culture.
I am suggesting that she opens herself to explore his culture and learn more about him. To recognise that there are 2 cultures in this relationship. Because if they do go on and have kids, even if they stay in the UK, then he is going to want his kids ot know about his culture and language, and the messages from the OP suggest that she is not open to that.

That could include some time living in Norway. As someone in a cross cultural marriage I cannot tell you how important I think it is to live in your partner's culture for a while.

But the OP has the right to say, no thanks, I am not interested. That is also fine. But then that is probably the end of the relationship.

As another PP keeps saying, this doesn't have to be a blame game. It does however have to be an honest conversation.

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But you can't seriously suggest that getting to understand the other culture means going to live there?

I know plenty of foreign nationals who have married people they met in the UK and they have lived their lives here. Lots of trips to the other country but not living there.

I think most people would see that as unreasonable if the UK partner isn't keen.

In fact, London has a thriving Norwegian community. There is a Norwegian school in Wimbledon.

Fact is, moving to another country does mean cutting some ties and losing cultural connections. And the answer to that is to move back if you are so bothered, or live with it - but you can't imo expect to involve someone else in fixing your self-created problem.

OneAmberFinch · 14/08/2025 20:35

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 20:26

But you can't seriously suggest that getting to understand the other culture means going to live there?

I know plenty of foreign nationals who have married people they met in the UK and they have lived their lives here. Lots of trips to the other country but not living there.

I think most people would see that as unreasonable if the UK partner isn't keen.

In fact, London has a thriving Norwegian community. There is a Norwegian school in Wimbledon.

Fact is, moving to another country does mean cutting some ties and losing cultural connections. And the answer to that is to move back if you are so bothered, or live with it - but you can't imo expect to involve someone else in fixing your self-created problem.

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As an aside from all this philosophising about the highs and lows of cross-cultural relationships...

Do people really see "London suburbs" as so very dire? I can think of a lot of worse places to live in the world than Wimbledon Village...

steppemum · 14/08/2025 20:38

But you can't seriously suggest that getting to understand the other culture means going to live there?

yes I am.
I have lived in 5 different countires and I have a non British husband.
many of my friends have cross cultural marriages.

The only way you really get inside a culture is to live there. Could be 3 months or 3 years, but it has to be more than a holiday.
And if you are planning on marrying cross culturally then take some months out from your life and go and live in their culture. Serious about spending the rest of your lives together? Then get serious about understanding him from the inside.

But the bigger point is that OP does need to grasp the idea that they have 2 cultures in this marriage and that her culture is not superior to his just because of where they live.
I don't know from OP's posts if she does get that, it is clear she doesn't want to go to Norway, but not clear how much she embraces his Norwegian-ness, I may be completely wrong.

And the answer to that is to move back if you are so bothered, or live with it - but you can't imo expect to involve someone else in fixing your self-created problem. but she is involved, because they are in a serious relationship. And how they work this out will determine is that relationship lasts.

EasternStandard · 14/08/2025 20:39

steppemum · 14/08/2025 20:38

But you can't seriously suggest that getting to understand the other culture means going to live there?

yes I am.
I have lived in 5 different countires and I have a non British husband.
many of my friends have cross cultural marriages.

The only way you really get inside a culture is to live there. Could be 3 months or 3 years, but it has to be more than a holiday.
And if you are planning on marrying cross culturally then take some months out from your life and go and live in their culture. Serious about spending the rest of your lives together? Then get serious about understanding him from the inside.

But the bigger point is that OP does need to grasp the idea that they have 2 cultures in this marriage and that her culture is not superior to his just because of where they live.
I don't know from OP's posts if she does get that, it is clear she doesn't want to go to Norway, but not clear how much she embraces his Norwegian-ness, I may be completely wrong.

And the answer to that is to move back if you are so bothered, or live with it - but you can't imo expect to involve someone else in fixing your self-created problem. but she is involved, because they are in a serious relationship. And how they work this out will determine is that relationship lasts.

It’s not compulsory and the op was upfront.

steppemum · 14/08/2025 20:44

It’s not compulsory and the op was upfront.

I agree it's not compulsory
OP is perfectly entitled to say this is not for her.
I would not for a minute blame her for saying this is not for me.

But actually when you say - it's not compulsory, I am curious. Do you mean that if you marry someone from another culture you don't have to bother getting to know their culture? Or do you mean that this OP doesn't have to do it.
Because if you mean the first, I couldn't disagree more.

EasternStandard · 14/08/2025 20:51

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 19:14

But he moved here. He had some pull to the UK. She has none for Norway. It is not the same.

I am from Scotland. I came to London and met my husband. I feel that it is profoundly unfair to move somewhere, meet someone, then expect them to move to your country.

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@steppemumthis is my take, especially if when starting as a couple the op didn’t pretend she’d join him. I know many married couples from different countries and know it can get problematic. The op should only move if she’s keen.

Arran2024 · 14/08/2025 21:24

steppemum · 14/08/2025 20:38

But you can't seriously suggest that getting to understand the other culture means going to live there?

yes I am.
I have lived in 5 different countires and I have a non British husband.
many of my friends have cross cultural marriages.

The only way you really get inside a culture is to live there. Could be 3 months or 3 years, but it has to be more than a holiday.
And if you are planning on marrying cross culturally then take some months out from your life and go and live in their culture. Serious about spending the rest of your lives together? Then get serious about understanding him from the inside.

But the bigger point is that OP does need to grasp the idea that they have 2 cultures in this marriage and that her culture is not superior to his just because of where they live.
I don't know from OP's posts if she does get that, it is clear she doesn't want to go to Norway, but not clear how much she embraces his Norwegian-ness, I may be completely wrong.

And the answer to that is to move back if you are so bothered, or live with it - but you can't imo expect to involve someone else in fixing your self-created problem. but she is involved, because they are in a serious relationship. And how they work this out will determine is that relationship lasts.

Well I'm Scottish and I never expected my English husband to live in Scotland for a year to understand my culture.

I think that's ridiculous. Being Scottish is only part of who I am for starters.

We go to Scotland about four times a year. I think he gets it.

Girasolverde · 14/08/2025 21:39

Oh the quote got deleted, it was about learning languages

Just on this point... that's why some people should NEVER be teachers. Imagine telling a CHILD that they don't have a brain for languages, they internalise that and carry it with them all the way to adulthood - what a way to inspire the next generation! This is the kind of fixed mindset shit that really grinds my gears!

Very off topic, but could I encourage you to find a language/ culture you're interested in and give 'languages' another go (duo linguo/italki/ youtube/a class?)?? I know 5 or 6 and German is one in particular that I've never really got on with.. it's notoriously difficult (I always found it even more difficult than Mandarin!)

Everyone has a brain for languages (SEND potentially etc aside), it's all about the time you're able to put in/ the way you're taught/ practise etc.

Sorry for the tangent... but with your fiancé,I understand your concerns, he may never want to move back. Sounds like it might be a stand off and a deal breaker. Sorry to hear it.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 21:47

MrsSunshine2b · 14/08/2025 14:23

This is painful.

You are asking if moving to Saudi is equivalent to moving to Norway for the sake of your fiance's happiness.

One is a risk to my safety and affront to my moral values, one is not.

If OP has valid safety concerns or moral objections about moving to Norway then that would be different matter, but the question would be, if your values are so anti-Norwegian, why are you marrying a Norwegian man?

I wouldn't marry a Saudi unless they shared my belief that oppressive theocracies are wrong.

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This is painful. It doesn't matter a bugger what you think of any country. She's not moving.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 21:48

steppemum · 14/08/2025 20:44

It’s not compulsory and the op was upfront.

I agree it's not compulsory
OP is perfectly entitled to say this is not for her.
I would not for a minute blame her for saying this is not for me.

But actually when you say - it's not compulsory, I am curious. Do you mean that if you marry someone from another culture you don't have to bother getting to know their culture? Or do you mean that this OP doesn't have to do it.
Because if you mean the first, I couldn't disagree more.

Edited

You're not curious, you're just desperate to win. OP is not moving, so that's that.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 21:49

steppemum · 14/08/2025 19:29

If he does wnat her to move there, then yes, it would be a deal breaker.
For what it is worth, I think he probably is hoping that she likes it and wants to stay. Which looks unlikely from what OP has said.

The point I am trying to make in my posts though is that this is a relationship.
This relationship, whether you like it or not has 2 cultures in it.
Even if they choose to stay in the UK, there are still 2 cultures in it, and it is not OK to say I want nothing to do with your culture.
I am suggesting that she opens herself to explore his culture and learn more about him. To recognise that there are 2 cultures in this relationship. Because if they do go on and have kids, even if they stay in the UK, then he is going to want his kids ot know about his culture and language, and the messages from the OP suggest that she is not open to that.

That could include some time living in Norway. As someone in a cross cultural marriage I cannot tell you how important I think it is to live in your partner's culture for a while.

But the OP has the right to say, no thanks, I am not interested. That is also fine. But then that is probably the end of the relationship.

As another PP keeps saying, this doesn't have to be a blame game. It does however have to be an honest conversation.

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She had the honest conversation 6 years ago and several times since. She's not moving.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 21:52

So, the question is - is the OP unreasonable for sticking to what they agreed to and she has always made crystal clear - and the only answer of course is No. Not at all unreasonable.

He's also not unreasonable to have changed his mind. But he IS unreasonable to pretend he's suddenly confused and to pretend he thinks she is being unreasonable when she is sticking to what they agreed to from the very start.

She's not moving, and if that means they split up, such is life. But in answer to the only question OP asked, once again for the hard of hearing at the back, no of course she is not being unreasonable to stick to exactly what she discussed from the beginning of their relationship.

Your feelings about specific countries are beyond irrelevant.

MrsSunshine2b · 14/08/2025 22:14

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 21:52

So, the question is - is the OP unreasonable for sticking to what they agreed to and she has always made crystal clear - and the only answer of course is No. Not at all unreasonable.

He's also not unreasonable to have changed his mind. But he IS unreasonable to pretend he's suddenly confused and to pretend he thinks she is being unreasonable when she is sticking to what they agreed to from the very start.

She's not moving, and if that means they split up, such is life. But in answer to the only question OP asked, once again for the hard of hearing at the back, no of course she is not being unreasonable to stick to exactly what she discussed from the beginning of their relationship.

Your feelings about specific countries are beyond irrelevant.

Then the relationship is most likely over. That's her choice to make.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 23:15

MrsSunshine2b · 14/08/2025 22:14

Then the relationship is most likely over. That's her choice to make.

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The double post was not me, seems to be mumsnet playing up.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 23:15

MrsSunshine2b · 14/08/2025 22:14

Then the relationship is most likely over. That's her choice to make.

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Indeed, and to be fair I don't see where she said otherwise. She would certainly be unreasonable if she expects him to stay in a relationship where he is deeply unhappy for any reason, but I don't think she implied that.

Anotherbeeloudglade · 14/08/2025 23:20

Girasolverde · 14/08/2025 21:39

Oh the quote got deleted, it was about learning languages

Just on this point... that's why some people should NEVER be teachers. Imagine telling a CHILD that they don't have a brain for languages, they internalise that and carry it with them all the way to adulthood - what a way to inspire the next generation! This is the kind of fixed mindset shit that really grinds my gears!

Very off topic, but could I encourage you to find a language/ culture you're interested in and give 'languages' another go (duo linguo/italki/ youtube/a class?)?? I know 5 or 6 and German is one in particular that I've never really got on with.. it's notoriously difficult (I always found it even more difficult than Mandarin!)

Everyone has a brain for languages (SEND potentially etc aside), it's all about the time you're able to put in/ the way you're taught/ practise etc.

Sorry for the tangent... but with your fiancé,I understand your concerns, he may never want to move back. Sounds like it might be a stand off and a deal breaker. Sorry to hear it.

Edited

Hmm. No. While it is true that the teacher was irreponsible to say this, it is not true that everyone has a brain for languages. I am excellent at languages, have strengths in artistic and creative areas and work well with people with challenges and mental health struggles - but I am poor at higher maths and mechanical issues, and I could get lost in my own street. You could teach me any way you want to and there are some things I cannot learn, and could not learn even as a child.

Not everyone is good at everything and some people struggle deeply to learn second languages, or simply cannot manage it at all.

But yes, teachers needs to be keeping that sort of comment to themselves.

SaratogaFilly · 14/08/2025 23:25

LuckyNumberFive · 13/08/2025 19:38

I will never understand men or women who meet someone while they're abroad and expect them to move.

He met you in London. He pursued a relationship with an English person (presumably) who was clear from the beginning they have no interest in living overseas. It isn't like you met abroard or he moved here to be with you and has sacrificed anything.

Some things don't need compromise, especially when they're life altering decisions. If he doesn't like it he should end the relationship.

If you'd been a firm no from the start on having kids, or being a stay at home mum, or moving to the arse end of nowhere and he'd kept schtum for 6 years hoping you'd change your mind people on here wouldn't be trying to convince you or insist there was a compromise. But because Oslo it's suddenly different.

Either he genuinely accepts you don't want to move or the relationship ends. If not, one will always resent the other.

Completely agree with this! It’s very out of order that he’s changed the goalposts when you’ve been clear from the outset.

Unfortunately in this situation, there really isn’t a compromise, so likely you’ll need to break up.

Dontlletmedownbruce · 14/08/2025 23:26

I see why you are annoyed as he has changed things. The reality is people change their minds or develop stronger feelings about things, if you changed how you feel about having children or where you wanted to live you'd expect him to hear you out. If it was him posting saying I want to spend my life with her but don't think I can accept never returning home, I'd probably say he needs to follow his heart and be honest with you about what he wants. It sounds like that's what he is doing. He has to ensure his own happiness long term.