What do you think of this ultimatum from Fiance?

[Pladi]

Fiancé and I met in our mid 20s in London. He is Norwegian. I have always been completely upfront that I would never even contemplate living in Norway. Not even Oslo. I must have made this clear from around the 2nd month of dating. Fiancé accepted that as he hated growing up in a fairly small town anyway.

Since becoming engaged fiancé has requested that we live in Oslo for a year after we marry. Just as an experience. I have said absolutely bloody not. There’s a long list of reasons why I wouldn’t consider this. Fiancé is “confused” as I did spend 18 months in Seattle for work. But Seattle (where I speak the language and am somewhat familiar with the culture) is a very different proposition to Oslo.

Im not happy that he’s changing the goal posts despite the fact I have never been anything but brutally transparent.

Ideally we would live in London for a couple more years then make the move to the burbs.

I’m not being unreasonable, am I?

Why the hell should OP care if it’s an affront to your values?!

Funny how OP’s own social, health and career concerns are “silly” and shouldn’t form a basis for her decision but your moral concerns should be a deciding factor 😂

Do you really think the whole world revolves around you?

NO ONE CARES WHO YOU WOULD MARRY

Because if it's not an affront to her values and is actually just superficial reasons like the weather then making small sacrifices like spending a year of your life somewhere that wouldn't be your top choice but isn't actively dangerous is part of being married.

If she doesn't want to make any sacrifices for his happiness, don't get married.

Imagine being so offended by Saudi Arabia because of women’s rights issues whilst telling another woman she has to do exactly what her fiancé tells her to and isn’t allowed to have her own views or opinions 😂🙄

The hypocrisy and lack of basic intelligence is genuinely astounding.

“OP don't leave where you love and all your friends and family for a man. Just don't. He shouldn't even ask you if he loves you.”

Why aren’t you questioning her not doing what he wants if she loves him?

They both need to decide what is more important
being together or where they live

No. The op doesn’t have to just do this. The guilt trip is the bad part.

Again, I’ll say is simply.

Why do you think you get to decide what other people are allowed to care about?

Who made you God?

This may come as a shock but some people care more about their family than women’s rights. Some people care more about their health than LGBT+ rights. Some people care more about their own careers than other people’s human rights.

I’m sure you’re all selflessness and perfection - other people are allowed to prioritise themselves in their own lives instead of prioritising your values. They’re YOUR values.

Which part are you struggling with?

Because loving someone doesn’t mean doing whatever they want 🙄 fucking hell

Could you suggest going on holiday there regularly instead?

They do speak English in Norway, it’s a beautiful country I wouldn’t write it off. Friend of mine met and married his wife in the US went to Norway where she is from and never left. He still doesn’t speak the language fluently but has a great life lively friends and would never now contemplate leaving.

If he is the person for you try a compromise.

You’re not being unreasonable to refuse to live in Norway if you don’t want to.

You are being unreasonable to get engaged to someone from another country and expect this not be an issue. Whatever you both felt in your 20s, he presumably has a family there with aging parents, life will happen and at some point they’re likely to need him.

If you really don’t want to do this, you probably need to end the relationship.

It really feels like everything is just about you here. I think he deserves a voice.

It works both ways.

If the argument is he shouldn’t be asking you to give up what you want if he loves you then isn’t the argument you shouldn’t be asking him to give up what he wants if you love him equally valid?

I personally wouldnt say its equally valid if one person has made what they wont do very, very clear from the start.

I do think you are being unreasonable. It would be different if he’d insist on a permanent move or if you had children. At this stage in your life, a year is nothing and wouldn’t impair your social life back home. You may or may not like Oslo, but a year is not an outrageous ask to live in a civilized European country where everyone speaks fluent English. Again, it’s not a permanent move - in that case I’d say language and integration are more critical. My answer would be different if it were Nigeria and the like or a village in the depth of Finnish Lapland.

The OP has been completely open about things right from the start. Presumably he accepted it at the time, but he has now moved the goalposts.

Who is saying the OP is wrong for not changing her mind? There isn't a wrong or right here - though you seem to think her fiance is wrong for expressing what he wants in life? There's nothing snakey or cowardly about what he's done. He's put his cards on the table. They don't match up with the OP's existing cards. They will probably split up but no one is the bad guy here.

You probably meant the comparison to anal sex to sound lurid but it would be the exact same situation with hopefully exactly the same advice. One partner wants X, the other partner does not want X - they are incompatible and should accept that as a fact of life rather than trying to find fault or cast blame. And they should go off and find partners who want the same things as they do, whether that's moving to Norway or anal sex.

Yeah, and if OP had done that then it would be unreasonable too. But that’s not what happened.

OP set a boundary and entered into the relationship on the basis that he said he wanted the same thing as she did. She didn’t say “oh, well, he wants to live in Norway, I want to live in London, he has to put up”.

He’s now changed his mind. Fine. But he has to decide whether it’s more important to him to live in Oslo or to be with OP. It is very unfair to demand she change her preference (which he’s doing), tell her she’s the problem (which he’s doing) and make it her problem to dilemma to deal with.

It’s not that he changed his mind that makes him unreasonable. It’s that he’s changed his mind, issued an ultimatum, unilaterally dictated that they change the status quo and agreed upon plan…

There are a thousand mumsnet threads that say changing the status quo (whether it’s moving house, having another child, opening the relationship up to swinging/polygamy or someone being a SAHP) is a “two yes, one no” situation. If the person wanting to change the situation, away from the previously agreed situation, doesn’t have agreement then they decide whether to leave and get their way or to stay and sacrifice it. You would absolutely never, ever, ever see an OP on here saying she wants another child and DH doesn’t being told it’s reasonable to force him to have one. Never. Nor would you ever have an OP preparing to go back to work after maternity have her DH demand she give up work and be a SAHM and being told she should just do it even though she wants to go back to work.

The only basis people have called OP unreasonable for is that they like Norway. Yet, bizarrely, despite saying how much they’d love to live there - they don’t live there. I wonder why. Maybe it’s because they have lives, family, friends and careers here - just like OP!

Do you not accept that people can change their minds as they go through life or does it always have to be framed as "moving the goalposts"?

No one is bound to want the same things in life as they did five or 10 or 20 years ago.

This would be my concern. He’s already changed the goalposts . You could move, potentially impact your career and your happiness and then he might decide after a year he doesn’t want to leave

You may want to re-read the thread. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of comments saying OP is unreasonable for not changing her mind.

As already said (again, try re-reading) he’s not unreasonable for changing his mind. He’s unreasonable for changing his mind and then issuing and ultimatum, berating OP, telling her she’s unreasonable, and refusing to be the one to make a decision on the relationship.

If a man agreed to a relationship where a woman said she would never, ever, ever do anal and then, six years later, said he does want anal and can’t live without it. That’s fine. What wouldn’t be fine is telling his partner she’s wrong and unreasonable and unfair for still refusal to do anal and pestering her to do anal until she ends the relationship and is the bad guy.

Surely you recognise the difference between “I want X, you don’t, we’re incompatible and the relationship ends” and “we both agreed to Y and now I want X instead. You must give me X, you are unreasonable and wrong for not giving me X”. The second is what he’s done.

The comparison to anal sex was because the blinkered posters on here are incapable of understanding that OP doesn’t have to like Oslo just because they claim to. Compare it to something they wouldn’t want forced upon them and they might understand why OP is allowed to make her own choices. No one would say “you seem to just be basing this on what you want and not what he wants” if OP said she didn’t want anal.

I have only read the OP's posts, so I apologise if I am repeating stuff.

I am married to a Dutchman. He told me early on in the relationship that he was happy to settle and live in the UK in the long run (we went overseas for a few years). Which was lovely and took some pressure off. But in reality we lived in Holland for 6 months as newly weds, and I am so glad that we did.

Having 26 years of cross cultrual marriage under my belt, and knowing a few other cross cultural couples I would say very, very strongly this:

1. you need to spend time in the other person's country. Get to know it, get to know the culture and most of all, see them in their own cultural context. This is my advice for any couple considering marrying someone from another culture, have you spent time in their culture? My dh is different in Holland. Not better or worse just different! Embrace who they are in all contexts, not just in UK.
2. you need to make an effort to learn language. Not to be fluent, just an effort. This has a huge implications for your kids too. Does he want his kids to speak Norwegian? How do you feel about that? Are you willing to be a bilingual household? It is very hard to achieve unless both of you have some Norwegian.

reading your posts feels like you love him, but you would actually prefer it if he wasn't Norwegian, and if he would just settle here and become British. I can see why that is an attractive thought, so much easier than having to consider that your relationship is 50% Norwegian, but in the end you have to embrace both cultures in a marriage.
It seems to me that he is wanting he Norwegian- ness to be a part of the conversation. Maybe he has moved the goal posts in that respect, maybe he is realising that he can't just 'be British', that he needs to acknowledge his own cultural background. Maybe he is now homesick!
If you don't feel that you can embrace that side of him, then sadly it is a sign that the relationship is over. That is not your fault or his, just the sad reality.

You don’t want the same things so the relationship is highly unlikely to last.

Ah it must be true then....

This is the best post on here. Better than my effort!

I’m also in a cross cultural relationship and couldn’t agree more. It’s not an easy relationship to navigate at times, there are fantastic opportunities, but also very real compromises and sacrifices.

Op it sounds like he’s only just realising what a huge thing giving up his country/culture is. Even if you don’t change your mind, I do think it would be better for you to approach this conversation by acknowledging what he’d be giving up for you and how hard that might be for him.

Where is the berating? Where is the pestering? Why are you making shit up?

In the OP's words: "Well he’s implied I’m being unfair and unreasonable and that changes how he views our relationship. He hadn’t exactly said he will dump me but it was somewhat he would have to reconsider things. It’s all a bit too manipulative for my liking."

He's implied, not said, that she's being unfair. Saying he's reconsidering the relationship because she's not up for the compromise of a year in Oslo is completely fair - leaping straight to dumping her without giving her a chance to think about the situation would be leaping straight to the nuclear option.

This is how compatibility gets worked out. You put the ball in the other person's court. They think about things and put it back in yours. Eventually you either find a compromise (hurrah, you're compatible after all) or you don't (you're incompatible, you split up). That isn't manipulative, that's an ongoing discussion.

I don't understand the need to make either of them the bad guy.