Old men sitting next to me

[pamelanoon]

Does this happen to anyone else.

There is a little cafe near where i work. I go and have my lunch there. I sit at a small table with two chairs.

Two times, old men have come in by themselves and asked can they sit at my table. There are loads of free tables, so there is no need to sit at mine.

When I said no to the first man, he was really rude and called me a typical selfish female.

I then said to the restaurant staff that he was abusing me and they said "oh but he is very old".

He grumbled and went off to sit by himself.

The next time I went in, a different old man came in and asked if he could sit at my table.

The chairs are a bit more comfy at the table i was at, so I thought that he wanted the comfy chair.

I said to him "yes you can sit here, i will move to another table".

I moved to another table, he went to the counter, came back, and came over to me at the new table and asked could he sit with me at this second table! I said no you can sit over there, and he shuffled off angrily.

Right they are probably lonely, but i want to enjoy my lunch, i don't want to be sitting talking to an old man i dont know all through lunch!

What would you do?

That's not what the poster said, but yes, if I am happy with old women to share my table but not old men then that is entirely my prerogative and none of your business.

I reckon he was waiting for that response so he could call you a stuck up cow and then have some real life confirmation that all women are bitches when he shuffled into his local for his lunchtime pint and people would have to listen to him because it was real and happened to him just now in the cafe. He will miss out the bit that you were a young woman alone and there were many vacant tables because he knows that looks creepy, so he is probably right now, drinking a pint saying “who do they think they are these stuck up women”

I can understand that some people, regardless of age or sex, might be lonely and want company, but it is not down to strangers to resolve that for them.

I was sat in an empty café with a friend. A middle aged man came over and just sat at our table with us. I said that we were having a private conversation, and he simply replied with "it is ok, I won't join in". We ended up moving.
In the same place, an elderly woman sat at my table and started going on and on about her health problems.
Another time, with a friend again, a lady sat with us and went on about her kids and about one was wanting a poo but "was holding it in". We were eating at the time. Her kid was standing on another table.

In another cafe (was almost empty), an older lady came in with who I assume was her small grandaughter and instructed her to go and sit "with the lady" (pointing at me) whilst she ordered food at the counter. I moved.

I have a friend who has perfected a piercing death stare that she uses when she thinks someone is going to sit with her. Maybe I should get some tips on how to perfect mine.

I think it's easy to decide what you would say but it can be different when it happens in real life.
Some years ago I was on a nearly-empty bus (I was the only passenger downstairs, there were people upstairs), when a man in a dishevelled state got on and sat next to me, despite all other downstairs seats being empty.
His first words were 'I've never hit a woman and I never will'...I could have responded with 'you would not need to, the smell of ammonia coming off your clothes would knock them out' but I didn't as I was trapped in my seat by him. So I made 'small talk' and told him I was going into town to buy something nice for my husband's tea. This did work and he did then move but it was a tense time.
Needless to say I don't have a husband and was going into town as part of my journey home.
Sadly sometimes we have to think of our safety rather than what we would prefer to say.

Plus it was explained away by staff when OP complained that he was old/doddery and therefore allowed to be verbaLly aggressive.

I wouldn't like this either. I'd definitely tell them no, especially with other tables free.

It seems like it's men (usually) feeling entitled to invade women's time and space.

Actually, when I go to a café alone I am just out for some peace and normally want to be left alone.

God that reminds me of a time when I was on a plane.

The man sitting beside me sexually harassing me. I was quite young at the time and nervous on what to do.

I saw a row with two free seats. I went to the toilet, and when I came back, I sat at a different seat on this row.

On this new row, i was sitting on an aisle seat, there was a free middle seat and there was a man a the window seat.

The man at the window seat turned to me and said "i know you moved to this row because you like me, and started chatting me up"

I thought oh my god, i can't get away from men like this wherever I go.

I said to him "no i moved here to get away from a man where i was sitting before. He was making me feel scared"

He did stop then.

Some men do seem to think they are absolutely entitled to chat to any woman. Yes, absolutely. I've noticed this especially when travelling. Some of these guys think that womens' attention is a utility laid on by the local area, like streetlights or free wifi, and YOU are wrong, rude, and odd when you don't automatically comply. Turning nasty and aggressive when you say no thanks is a dead giveaway that it's intentionally controlling and creepy and not just a difference in social conventions or someone being out of touch with reality.

I don't think you can stop someone else from sitting at your table if there's a free space, but a reasonable person would take no for an answer (you might have been waiting for friends to join you, friend's gone to the loo, etc.) You can also get up and move (of course, you shouldn't have to). I would consider no longer going to that particular cafe as the staff made excuses for him after he verbally abused me. If that were a homeless person they'd have shown him firmly out within a minute age and doddering be damned; why not even faster for a misogynist actively pestering customers?

Did they become aggressive when you said no?

Had one do that to me a few weeks back, but I was with my dad so I don't think it was in any way sexist. He asked if he could join us, and I said yes as I'm not really sure how you say no nicely in that situation. Had a fairly dull chat, mostly about traffic. I assumed he was lonely, and as it was a small village coffee shop and he was clearly a regular, I felt it was nice to be neighbourly. I don't like the thought of someone being so alone they have to ask random people for company. Though maybe he was just pushy and socially inept, who knows. But I'd rather suffer the latter than turn away the former.

If I was on my own I'd probably find it easier to say no though, especially as I'd have earphones in and almost certainly be engrossed in my tablet / laptop / book.

"I'm sorry, I'm waiting for a friend to join me".

I don't have to lie though.

No is a full answer.

I did just say no

I’m annoyed for you. Well done for saying no. Keep saying no.

The only acceptable time for anyone to ask to share a table is when there are none left and to be honest I’d rather go elsewhere personally.

Why should OP lie? Her answer of 'No' was perfectly fine.

Yes! I remember one time i went on solo travel to a country.

Often when i went down to the pool by myself, some man would come over and start talking to me.

They seem to think that women always want male company, that women couldnt possibly enjoy being alone

You think 🤔 😁

Very Strange that people are still denying that sexual harassment happens,

Even though multiple women on this thread have experienced the same thing.

And i remember reading another thread on mumsnet where a woman wrote the same thing about a man sitting beside her in a cafe. She asked him to leave, and he got extremely aggressive

Making love to his tonic & gin.

Ah no seriously, leave me alone, especially if there is space elsewhere.

about 5 years ago, at a AI resort in Punta Cana, husband out of resort for the evening with his best friend that lives here, At the buffet for dinner alone, tons of seating (adult only, and 6 other restaurants on property that were alacartes) A woman about my age or maybe 5-10 years older, saw me alone and asked if she could join me. I was a little uncomfortable, but said ok It was a lovely evening and we moved to the lobby bar after dinner for a couple glasses of wine. I made a friend. I still chat with her once in a while online. Last month , Punta Cana (live here now for a few years full time) , waiting in a nice little bistro for two friends, maybe 10 tables. One other occupied then me at a four top. Ordered a margarita, some man from the bar area heard my belfast accent, came over, told me he was on holiday from east belfast, could he join me. I said I am sorry (don't know why I would say sorry...but hey ho) but my friends are joining me shortly. He gave me a dirty look, said "should have known you would be a stuck up bitch" and went back to his barstool. Friends arrived and we moved to the little bar a few doors away as I could not handle him staring at me with contempt. I am 57 years old, while I look pretty decently put together, no supermodel thats for certain.

God why can some men not take the slightest bit of rejection

😂

I hate sharing a table if I don’t need to.

Especially if it’s people with grizzling kids or dogs.🙄🤷‍♀️
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YANBU OP, I've had this several times with old men trying to talk to me and start up conversations that I didnt want and made me feel uncomfortable. Its happened literally whilst I was jogging (who the fck tries to stop a stranger running, to try to chat with them??) and also whilst out walking my dog. I hate it and even now when I wear huge massive headphones it still happens.

Oh, and before anyone tries to guilt trip me into the whole "poor thing, maybe they're lonely" BS- there are plenty of OTHER people around they could talk to- specifically- similar age, older ladies walking their dogs and other men also walking their dogs but funny that they never, ever pick them to relieve their loneliness isnt it?

The fact these old men target much younger women to talk to and never pick other men their own age (who, lets face it, would have far more in common with them!) is enough evidence to me that there is a predatory slant to it and frankly, it makes me feel ill.

I already replied to that. Try to read the full thread before commenting with a nasty laughing emoji

I know right? I could have said, I am not interested, I am married (which if the rings on my finger did not give it away, I don't know what would) or just FUCK OFF. But no. I was polite, and I still got called a bitch