To leave DH if he loses his second job in three years?

[Joness2]

My DH got dismissed (walked before he was pushed) from his previous job 3 years ago. It was set to go to hearing but his Union representative advised him he was likely to be dismissed so he resigned in order to not have to declare a dismissal when applying for future roles.

I was furious, I was in the early stages of pregnancy and could not believe he would be so stupid. It was a very worrying time for a while with finances etc.

He found a new job about 2 months before our child was born so had minimal paternity leave (he would have had 4 weeks had he not left his job). It caused a lot of resentment and I struggled to get over it.

He has remained in that job without issue until now. He told me after work today that he has been informed of disciplinary action due to inappropriate comments towards (female) colleagues on a night out. This is the exact reason he had to leave his job before. He promised me then he would not go on nights out with work again, something he has mainly stuck to only waning if it’s something where there isn’t drink involved.

This time, he is convinced that he will get a warning and is not at risk of dismissal. This is his opinion rather than factual.

I am so bloody angry with him doing this again and told him that if he loses his job, we are over. Infact, I’m considering leaving regardless having been told the vile comments.

He says I should be supporting him and that we are a team and to threaten to leave is making it ‘about me’.

Do you think I should try to support him through this and how to handle any hearing or would you leave him to clean up his own mess?

I have never allowed anyone to find weasle ways to get around what is an incredibly simple and straightforward piece of legislation to abide by if following very simple and straightforward processes. I have been using it for the last 15 years to hold bosses and employees to account. But then I'm not "HR" - I sit in the middle, not on either side. If someone asks me if a corner can be cut, I simply tell them no and we move onwards.

I feel genuinely sorry for all the thousands of HR folk who have found themselves in tribunals wanting to shout, "it wasn't my idea!". But that doesn't stop it being simple and easy to apply.

Hard to know where to start but I think you already know it's over, it's just a matter of when. What I will say is that I worked in engineering for 18 years and 12 of those were before the equality act (2010). I have been sexually harassed or discriminated against in all but 2 workplaces, both of which had female MDs. I am no snowflake and never reported the events but even I find his comments extremely disturbing.

I honestly think he's somewhere in the spectrum of narcissist / sociopath, just like my ex. He also couldn't keep a job. Not because he was a sex pest but because he couldn't bear to be told what to do, by anyone. He kept his first job, started a week before we met, for 5 years, mainly because his dad also worked for the company, but there was a theft scandal within his clique at work and I now know he was in it with them , due to subsequent work thefts, but they covered for him. In the next 16 years, he had 9 jobs and has been sacked by at least 4, jumped before he was pushed by all bar one of the rest. Because he was actively abusive towards me (especially financial and coercive control), and we have a disabled child, it took me 3 years to get out but, honestly, I was better off on universal credit.

• Speak to welfare rights about what you'd be entitled to.
• Get the house valued and advice on what could be done to maximise the value. I added £20k with less than £2k of DIY and got out with £70k. Just enough to cash purchase a house in horrible condition that I'm almost finished renovating, 2.5 years on. BUT, I'm mortgage free and can probably sell at £30k profit.
• Start an escape fund and planning what your finances would be (I made a spreadsheet). Plug in whatever benefits welfare rights say you can get.
• Use the child maintenance calculator and factor that in. *If you work, you may be better off leaving before you get out or at least reducing your hours. You can make about £400 a month before universal credit make deductions, so working part time is the best solution until you're out and re-settled.
• I took the opportunity to return to uni and have re-trained as an FE teacher, so I'll get the same holidays as my son. While studying, I was about £300 a month better off, due to the special support element that single parent mature students get. Because of my son's care needs, I will probably never earn above the threshold to have to pay back student finance. For some subjects, you can also get a £25-30k bursary (tax free, over 10 months) to study. Just a few practical tips.

Finally, some other things I've picked up on that I didn't see others comment on:

• His "nothing worse than what happens down the pub" comment says it all. Unless he works in a pub, there is no comparison between what happens in a pub and what is expected within a workplace. This, along with multiple other comments he has made and things he has done just shows he is minimising his behaviour and is trying to victim blame and gaslight. *The timing of the first event is very telling. You were in the early stages of pregnancy. I'm guessing you may have been preoccupied. The focus was no longer on him. Perhaps you were even having to be extra careful (I lost 4 babies before my only DS so I get this). Was there a trigger this time as well? Where he wasn't getting enough attention at home? Is it possible he'd been having an affair between the first offence and the latest outburst and he says these things when he's on the prowl again? *Drink takeaway and shag comment - just shows he's not at all sorry. He simply doesn't see that he's done anything wrong and seems to see sex as just a necessary physical function, like taking a shit, not at all connected with emotions, trust and girly shit like that. It's not even that he has no respect for women, I suspect he gives zero shits about anyone but himself.

Good luck.

I'm a union rep and that rep's behaviour is despicable!

I think it may well just be the husband's fantasy projection of what he would have liked the rep to say. He seems oblivious to other people's opinions or thoughts or feelings.

No. He asked OP for 'a takeaway and a shag' before he went for a drink. He just has a sexist mindset.

He is very lucky that he wasn’t dismissed, but his working life will be incredibly unpleasant now (very well deserved IMO) so one way or another, I doubt he will be in the job for long. However, if and when you leave him, I would brace yourself to hear similar interactions from sources much closer to home. If he feels emboldened to say this to work colleagues and views women (including you by his ‘shag’ comment) in such a misogynistic way, I would be surprised if he has never said anything to mutual friends etc, who probably won’t want to say anything until you have left. I don’t say this to gloat or to prophesy doom as I feel awful that you are dealing with this, but forewarned is forearmed.

That rep’s behaviour didn’t happen. DH needed a male to agree that he hadn’t done anything wrong - who better than the rep who doesn’t know what’s been said about him and can’t defend it. Why are so many people here so willing to believe what DH has said about the conversation with the rep, given everything that OP has said about him.

This.

I have no idea what any of this means.

I’d say it was ‘unreal’. I’d say it didn’t happen. Why would you think someone who would behave like this and make every excuse in the book for putting his wife and family through this shit would be telling the truth about his interactions with his union rep? More likely he’s made the whole thing up to minimise his actions and cover up the fact that one more transgression will mean he’s sacked.

Unfortunately, the legislation has just changed so that employers are held responsible for any sexual harassment committed by their employees. Most employers are changing their internal policies to say there is zero tolerance for such behaviour, to protect their legal position, so I'm afraid it is more likely than not that he may get fired (the sadness is for what he's putting you through, not for him: his behaviour is appalling 🤢)

OP has already said that he has received a final written warning. The legislation may have changed but that doesn’t absolve the employer from properly investigating and ensuring disciplinary procedures are compliant, even where the employee’s behaviour is considered gross misconduct and subject to dismissal. In this case it’s a final written warning, which is sensible to minimise the likelihood of DH instigating an unfair dismissal case.

Thinking about this, we only have his word for it that it was a FWW, not dismissal! I'd be asking to see the post-meeting letter if I were the OP.

At the Union’s advice he played the MH card saying he had some challenges at home around that time (bollocks) and he said him and the rep had a good laugh afterwards. Basically the rep said about workplaces having gone ‘woke’ but it keeps him in a job, and my husband should know which colleagues can take a joke and which can’t If the union rep really said this they need sacking too.
If you stay with him it looks like you condone everything he says and does, you will soon find yourself without friends!

I'm glad you're furious and very angry.

You know clearly what he is and who you're married to.

And who you choose to inflict on yourself and children.

The line about his union rep saying he should quit because his manager would influence a hearing, is fishier than Grimsby on a hot summers day. That's not how disciplinary hearings work and strongly imply that there are other things going on. Either he said or did other stuff or was asked to agree to some sort of good behaviour agreement. If he created a threatening environment for the manager maybe his employment became impossible for the company. Is he a Dr jekyll Mr Hyde when he drinks? But generally booze only amplify whatever is already going on when you're sober

Either his union adviser is trying to get sacked or is sid James out of the carry on films... Or he isn't be straight with you. It's bizarre he wasn't suspended.

Having been though smt similar on the other side, I fully believe union rep said this. Union rep is a voluntary job and they can be just as hideous as your husband. The law though.... It's very clear and has become more so in the last years. It's the law that will be his comuptence..

@Joness2 - how are things currently?

Wondering how you are @Joness2 ?