My Incel father and brother

[Inshockandsome]

I am not sure what to do.

All of my life I have lived under a cloud of misogyny and I have been treated like a second class citizen in my own home. There to serve and know my place. Initially as a child I became a tom boy to take the pressure off - because I recognised my femininity as a vulnerability.

I was beaten, demeaned and consistently emotionally abused. I was objectified, and told my education doesn’t matter as I will just be married and have children anyway. It was a toxic environment to grow up in.

My father openly demeans all of the women around us - waiters, bar people - anyone that is female. The women he hated most were strong women or anyone that dared to challenge him. He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother ‘quiet’. My mother has always stood by him, despite his open contempt of her.

I found my voice as a teenager and stood up to him. He reacted with extreme violence, he would use ritual humiliation and weaponised my body against me. A severe eating disorder followed, multiple suicide attempts before I escaped.

My grandmother (his mother) died and he didn’t seem too bothered. His main interest was his inheritance.

Fast forward to today, my mother tells me he follows certain ‘groups’ on line. He speaks openly now of his feelings around strong men, weak women etc. I had to remove my children from their lives years ago. I have stopped contact for many years.

My brother is now the same. Ruined by his enduring dislike of women, despite having a wife and 3 x dds.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

You know what? He probably hasn't even though of you OP
He will be thinking of himself , he is a black hole of need. Am I hungry now? Where is a woman who can bring me food? Am I in pain? Who can bring me my meds?

I feel like writing a letter could help you and offer you closure.

This made me laugh! How true it is! Yes, you are right. He isn’t thinking about any of this. My mother no longer cooks, so good luck with that. Some people simply don’t want or need to think deeply about their lives or relationships. They don’t have the capacity or wish to dig a little deeper.

I wonder what my mother will do with her liberation when it arrives.

Not the same situation as yours but I have dealt with abusive close family members. Just because they are dying does not change anything. I would maintain distance. In my case I did not visit before death and I did not attend the funeral. I did get abuse for doing this, but there was a good chance I would have got more abuse for attending so I am happy with my decision. Then concentrate on dealing with the trauma you have, not theirs.

I think get more therapy.

And report him to the police.

I would consider getting grief counselling when he does die. It's often harder when an abusive parent dies because of the resurfacing of a lot of hurt and unresolved feelings. It may not be easy, so please look after yourself

I'll go against the grain and suggest you go back to therapy asap before taking any steps. You sound very vulnerable. You have no direct contact with your father, all communication is via your mother who (as I understand) is enmeshed with him and tbh I cannot see sending a letter helping you in any way move forward. What do you hope to achieve sending it? In the kindest way possible, these are things to work on in therapy. Did you talk about your complicated relationships with those in your life who enabled abuse, rather than only focusing on your father?

You may need to come to terms with the fact that whatever you say it will not land the way you hope to and that there is no way to ensure no regrets In the future. The past may not get acknowledged and apologized for, and you may need to let go of the hope other people will change.

Yes, he may well be expecting that, or he may not even give you a thought.

From your earlier posts it seems your main concern is that you might feel regret if you don't see or talk to him before he dies. Maybe the best way to deal with this is to accept that the risk exists, but weigh it against the risk to your wellbeing from interacting with him again.

If you end up feeling regret down the line, you can deal with it then. Preferably with the support of a therapist. If you engage with your father and end up getting hurt again, I think that will be a more difficult wound to heal.

As it happens, I think it's unlikely you will feel regret after he dies. As you can see from other posters who have gone through similar experiences, the main feeling is a sense of peace/relief.

The takeaway from this is more therapy, I am dreading the idea of it, but needs must. It is an exhausting process that doesn’t fill me with joy.

I might write a letter or simply wish him the best (without my feelings potentially so they can’t be used or weaponised) for closure if I need to.

I am too afraid to see him anyway. So that solves that issue.

I might prepare for feelings to resurface, but I grieved a long time ago, maybe something or nothing will come up. Thank you for helping me think this through, and sharing your own experiences with me.

I sent the letters to my abusive parents. They read and never replied but for me it was an action. It was taking back some control from controlling people who had harmed me. I made mistakes on my journey but not staying quiet was not one of them.

I think it’s inevitable that feelings are going to resurface when your abusive Dad passes away. Even if you have grieved all your life.

It really is ok to be feeling the way that you are feeling. Look after yourself during this time.

Perhaps even drafting a letter that airs your true feelings (you don’t have to send this), separately to the one you do wish to send to say goodbye. Just a suggestion, but ultimately it is up to you, and I would suggest seeking support from a therapist.

Best of luck to you, OP. Take care.

Sometimes, the most powerful response is silence. Don't give him the satisfaction of knowing that his treatment of you scarred you for life. You don't need to thank him for shoes and basic needs, he had to do that regardless or be in trouble with authorities. The man is a monster.

By all means write him a letter, pour your heart and soul into it, but don't send it. Send it after he's gone if you must, they can put it in his coffin.

Do you need more therapy? Suffering is guaranteed in life absolutely guaranteed what is important is we take the meaning and knowledge that our suffering gives us. Some people refuse to do that and stay confined to the roles that trap them in their suffering, for you that would be projecting the myth of the perfect Hallmark family and the obligations/expectations onto your situation. You are having a wobble we all do when new information comes in or something changes but on the whole you seem to have stepped outside of your family culture and sought out a more objective lens to figure out what actions you need to take when new challenges arise. I think you should keep doing you, you seem to have learned the lessons in your suffering really well and the last lesson might be that you can trust yourself now. You have this.

But OP you don't wish him well
Again this is social conditioning. You have detached from him successfully, and he rarely enters your mind. What you wish him (I am assuming) is for a death that is not horrific (as you would wish for any human being)
Those are not the same thing and that is not worthy of your time or attention. Put your time and attention into your healing, away from the family.

@Inshockandsome
Given your description of him I suspect this sorry excuse for a man will love a letter that describes the horrific damage he caused to an innocent daughter. A child he should have cared for and loved. Warped bastards like this thrive on the pain they inflict. Please do not give him that pleasure and sense of power. And yes, there is a danger that your letter could be used against you after his death. Please do not contact this man. He didn't just throw away a relationship with you. He stamped on it consistently and maliciously. Let your brother, mother or paid professionals tend him. Attend neither him or his funeral. Your life has been free of this abuser and there is no need for you to get pulled into the currents of his death.

Look at the wonderful family you have made and take comfort from the strong loving bonds that exist with your husband and children. You are an amazing resilient strong woman. I'm put in mind of the beauty of kintsugi. A practice of mending broken objects with gold. You may have been shattered by your father's contempt and brutality but you have rebuilt yourself into one of these works of art.

Having an abusive parent or carer can shatter the development of a child. Even as adults, despite knowing the danger caused that child can crave their approval. It is normal to want a loving supportive relationship with a parent and to miss and mourn it even if it never existed. You could write a letter to the father you should have had, the father that protects and loves their children regardless of their sex. A farewell if you like for the man that never lived and never knew the joy of being your father. A letter not for sending to the sadistic sexist sperm donor but for you to keep.

You don’t need to share any details if you don’t want to. Your situation sounds similar to mine.

How did it feel when they didn’t reply? Did you wait for one or did you send the letter and let go?

How did it help you?

I am so sorry for what you have been through. He sounds an appalling human being. I would stay well away from him. I don't think you will be able to achieve any satisfactory closure by visiting him. He has never brought anything but pain and abuse. You most likely won't find any connection or answers now.

You sound like an incredible woman and it sounds like you have found a wonderful husband. Keep your focus there on the life and family you have around you now.

Therapy sounds like a great idea. In the meantime (this might sound crazy) but could you do some sort of ritual to emotionally move away from him - could be lighting a candle and blowing it out, saying a prayer, anything to symbolise a closure and ending of ties. I know it sounds a bit nuts but someone recommended it when I was struggling after the breakdown of a relationship and it really helped me. Sorry if it sounds a bit mad!

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

yes, you do.

Step away, let someone else handle it.

For me @Inshockandsome it was different because it was earlier in the process at a time where I felt things could be fixed if they could take some responsibility. At that time the battleground was in my mind, I was very angry at the big cover up for abuse in my family and by sending messages I felt like I was taking the battleground out of my mind and putting it out into the world with the people it belonged to. It didn’t change anything with respect to the relationship with my parents, they had set the family culture themselves when they married and nothing outside of their culture was possible but it changed everything for me internally. Would I do it where you are at now, my advice would be proceed with caution, I needed to get it out of me so it was serving my peace, now that I have a lot of peace in my life I use other strategies to protect it. NC and absolutely minimal interactions with my family is my strategy and personally I will not be going to deathbeds as I simply do not have any hankering for it anymore. We have just been through the lose of a parent on the other side with DHs equally dysfunctional family and it was an absolute car crash.

Maybe it's true that a letter where you disclose your feelings would be doing him too much of a favour. But maybe there's also a way of writing a letter that allows you to feel you have had your say and that denies him a favour he does not deserve. You could thank him for making you the strong, opinionated woman you are today and for helping you to recognise a good and loving man when one came along. You could thank him for helping you to understand the importance of filling your life with love and kindness, and with a happiness that nobody can ever take from you. And if you felt like it you could say you hope that he finds whatever comfort he can in reflecting on the life he has lived. You will not be visiting him, for reasons you hope he understands. Nothing in there could be used against you, but maybe it would help you to feel you have said what needed to be said while keeping the upper hand and moral high ground. I'd still write the long letter, though, even if I chose in the end not to post it, and I would keep it. Maybe just as a form of self therapy, or as a record for yourself or others. It could even become a book, some day, as someone else said.

My weakness is exactly that - the ‘hallmark’ family - I find Christmas excruciating because of it. I used to dream of my family finally coming together like they do in all good American movies, and everything would turn out okay. A childhood dream of mine that resurfaces every December and erodes and nibbles away noisily for the entire month. The pain and loss is always at its worst then.
These days I prepare for it emotionally, like a battle.

Thank you for pointing out to all of those that have helpfully said my letter might well be held up as proof I am the terrible person because I have ‘upset’ a dying man, and withdrawn his right to die peacefully. I am sure my brother would love a reason to hurt or berate me. I will not give it to him. I will stay exactly where I am - in the safety of my own family and community. Away from the power games, the manipulation that will follow. The reeling in - and then further pain. My father knows anyway, he must remember his own actions. So he has to find a way to make his own peace. That is not my job.

OP I'm in awe of your emotional maturity and the fact that you have created for yourself a happy, stable, harmonious life. So many (as I did) go from an abusive childhood to a whole string of shitty relationships because that just "feels like home."

You're an infinitely better, wiser, kinder person than him and you must do what you want to do. You've come to terms with him being a monster and know you must protect yourself from physically encountering him again, but I rather like your letter idea, keeping it simple as you said:

Thank him for his hard work, for buying the shoes on my feet as a child, and acknowledging that he was my father, even if we no longer see each other. I might even say how much I fear him and how much I would have liked a proper relationship with him, that moment has now gone. I’ll never have a father now.

The fact that you know he might not even read it speaks volumes. This is not about seeking to miraculously mend your relationship with him, yearning to obtain long-withheld approval, or exacting some kind of revenge. It is just you saying goodbye in your own way. There is only one chance to do that, and if you think you might regret not doing so then I'd go for it.

Before sending it, carefully examine all the ways it might backfire to upset you, but it sounds as though you have the situation sussed.

My weakness is exactly that - the ‘hallmark’ family - I find Christmas excruciating because of it. I used to dream of my family finally coming together like they do in all good American movies, and everything would turn out okay. A childhood dream of mine that resurfaces every December and erodes and nibbles away noisily for the entire month. The pain and loss is always at its worst then.
These days I prepare for it emotionally, like a battle

That is the grief of never having parents who could parent in any way appropriately, it is certainly not a weakness of yours wanting that.

You honestly sound so awesome. You clearly are thoughtful, compassionate, intelligent and sensible, you just sound amazing.

Maybe that is a very good compromise. A message that can’t be seen as harmful - but one that acknowledges where we are today.
It won’t matter to him. This is for me.

I have in my mind a piece of art on a card that reflects my emotions. The kind that speaks volumes without words. I will look for this. Spend time finding exactly the right one.

I am also realising he didn’t provide food and shoes for me because he wanted to, or because he cared. It was for my mother. That has hit me this morning. The clothes and food were to keep up the appearances and illusion we were a ‘normal’ family even as the police arrived.

It was obvious to all that things were very far from okay. The pity I would see in the eyes of teachers, neighbours, friend’s mothers to this day stirs up anger. Mainly because they all knew, and did nothing.

If my father had stopped feeding us, my mother would have left. His only aim in life was to keep her, not because he adores her, but because he controls her fully. She is completely submissive, and he knows that is rare. It was never for me, and he doesn’t deserve a thank you for serving his own needs.

So sorry to hear about your experience. My advice re his end of life would be to do what is best for you. Maybe that is to keep away from him, or maybe it is to see him
for your own closure and to avoid you ever having any possible regret. But yeah, I think your choice should be based on what will best serve you going forward. xx