My Incel father and brother

[Inshockandsome]

I am not sure what to do.

All of my life I have lived under a cloud of misogyny and I have been treated like a second class citizen in my own home. There to serve and know my place. Initially as a child I became a tom boy to take the pressure off - because I recognised my femininity as a vulnerability.

I was beaten, demeaned and consistently emotionally abused. I was objectified, and told my education doesn’t matter as I will just be married and have children anyway. It was a toxic environment to grow up in.

My father openly demeans all of the women around us - waiters, bar people - anyone that is female. The women he hated most were strong women or anyone that dared to challenge him. He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother ‘quiet’. My mother has always stood by him, despite his open contempt of her.

I found my voice as a teenager and stood up to him. He reacted with extreme violence, he would use ritual humiliation and weaponised my body against me. A severe eating disorder followed, multiple suicide attempts before I escaped.

My grandmother (his mother) died and he didn’t seem too bothered. His main interest was his inheritance.

Fast forward to today, my mother tells me he follows certain ‘groups’ on line. He speaks openly now of his feelings around strong men, weak women etc. I had to remove my children from their lives years ago. I have stopped contact for many years.

My brother is now the same. Ruined by his enduring dislike of women, despite having a wife and 3 x dds.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

You do nothing other than take comfort that this piece of shit is going to meet his maker and you will finally be free of him.
Your Mum has a choice.
You sound like a strong and amazing person despite what you have endured. Be proud of yourself and hope your brother gets his come uppance before long too.

What do you think the letter will achieve? I personally think you should write the letter. I think you need to get it out and say what you need to say. However, I would write it, cry, grieve and burn it. I would never send it.

Your dad is a nasty and abusive man. He abused you because his sperms chose to make you a girl. He doesnt care how he hurt you, how long it took you to recover or what your life is now. He cares about power and control. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of knowing that he even has a place in your mind.

they may be on here posting, this forum is full of them types

I don’t think I can take over the care of my mother, as I live so far away. I found moving far away very cathartic and protective. Almost comforting.

Breaking the cycle starts with escape. Rebuilding yourself piece by piece. Learning who you are, what you want from life. Independence and freedom. Followed lastly by choosing some genuine and loving people to be in your life. Hand picked.

I am well aware of my patterns, my insecurities. I have had to work hard on trust, mostly trusting myself to be honest. The fragility of my life, of your life - of life itself has never left me. I think of it every day.

I will write the letter. I will send it for once. It’s good advice not to read any replies, if I get one, which I doubt I will. He doesn’t care, and that’s okay. It’s just how it is.

I will pass on a reply if there is one to my dh who will know what to do. This letter will be a way to say goodbye without allowing him to hurt me again. I am not giving him a platform to do more harm.

It’s a miracle that you survived your childhood and another miracle that you had the strength to turn your life around and begin to see the light. It’s a third miracle, that you have come to the health point where you can let his cruelty go, -the point which you call forgiveness, and can no longer reach or feel the pain and despair he always covered you with.

Those miracles didn’t happen by magic, you fought for them by some personal innate instinct guiding you instead of love, care and support from your parents, and you found it within yourself to work so hard for them in spite of not knowing which way to turn many times at the beginning, I’m sure.

And now you face the death of your father, yet another fork in the road and you don’t know which way to turn. I think you have come to the stage in your life, where it actually doesn’t matter which road you take, go to see him or not, they both lead to the same good strong road you are already on.

You may wish to avoid putting yourself in front of him if you feel that is the easiest or most wise, or you may wish to go to his bedside for a minute or two to let him …and your mother…see in an instance that, in spite of their terrible cowardice, you had the courage to discard that trait and instead you become balanced and kind, happy and successful -all in spite of their neglect and cowardice

As to what to say to a dying man who lived his life so poorly, I think you could say that you hope his god, if he has one, forgives him for his life-time of misery and cruelty. Tell him the pain he inflicted on you throughout your terrifying childhood forced you to say a proper goodbye to him many years ago as it was your only chance of survival. Tell him that without him in your life, you have been able to contribute positively and live happily.
OP, you could just look him in the eye and say that goodbye again, to his face this time, for the final time.

You aren’t responsible for his feelings or his discomfort now. You aren’t his family, he and his wife made that very clear throughout your childhood. Tell that to your mother and brother if they try to pressure you now.

Good luck OP, whatever you decide to do.

He won’t read it out of spite.That will be his last fuck you to you.
but my last fuck you to him would be humiliating him by not going to his funeral and letting him know prior he dies.

When I read the title, the thought that popped into my head was 'they are not your father and brother then'.
Before I had even read the horrors you have endured.
This man is not your father in any meaningful way. Please stay no contact.
You can deal with your feelings of fear and anxiety and your need for closure without having any further contact with him.
Your family is abusive, you should stay away for your own safety. When you doubt yourself, reach out to those who love you, and on here.

You sound like an amazing and strong survivor. Break the chain, do not see them and give yourself and your family a better healthier future. Good luck

It certainly wasn’t you @Inshockandsome
Remember that.
You are strong - you broke free
Do you care that he is ill ?
You shouldn’t.
When he goes that will be one less evil man in the world.

Let him die with nc. He dos't deserve your support. You reap what you sow.

It was interesting when you said look him in the eye. Say goodbye. My stomach somersaulted, flipped, and froze at the thought.

I realised the idea of looking at him properly really terrifies me. His eyes have always terrified me. When I saw them as a child I would be stunned by the blazing anger. The twisted face. The spittle. The abject loss of all control.

I know now I can not look into his eyes again. I want to shield myself from what lies within them. I have never seen his eyes dance or smile, or cry or wrinkle with kindness or love. They are always ablaze. Even when quiet, his eyes are always angry.

I very much agree with this, and I also understand the PP's point about over analysing.

Yes, it's good to analyse your childhood in therapy and with the support of a good counsellor. The purpose of this work is to understand that the abuse was not your fault and help you to develop your own boundaries.

However, the kind of analysing you're doing here seems to be trying to convince yourself there's something to be redeemed, and that he wasn't all bad. It doesn't line up with the reality.

I fear that you're now in danger of undoing a lot of your good work so far. This man does not care about you and will literally laugh at your visit, or letter. You are leaving yourself open to harm by engaging.

It may be helpful to write the letter and burn it.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

@Inshockandsome please do not give this abusive and evil man any more of your time - physically or emotionally.

He chose to be the way he was - if we wanted to be a better husband and father he would have been. If he wanted to make amends later in life he would have. He didn’t want to. This is something I realised about my own father too late.

You owe him nothing. Don’t give him any more of your precious time - you have achieved so much and none of that is because of who he was as a father. Don’t let him ruin your peace now - he has already taken too much from you.

I totally disagree with the letter
A good tip I had from therapy was to record as voice notes in your phone (never send them) Just the act of saying it puts in an emotional distance. Then you can listen/never listen/ delete as appropriate. It cools off emotions.
You thanking him for the life he gave you is still putting you as a victim. You didn't get this life because of him. You got it in spite of him. That doesn't require a thank you. To me, that's like thanking the sea because you swam in it and it didn't drown you that day. It doesn't care.
I'm going to say something gently here, this level of scrutiny over what to do is your grief reaction and is bringing up unprocessed trauma (even if you feel strong/grateful/happy day to day)
This needs some proper therapy

You know that your father has mistreated you. That is something that is outside my experience. I do know about a dying parent. My father died a year ago. He was at home and in hospital. I just want to say that my experience of a very sick person is that they become very selfish - the world revolves around them and their needs. This is only right. It was about how the painkillers were working, if they needed to get out of bed, what was wrong with the chap in the opposite bed etc. Complaining about nurses was also huge. I cannot imagine at any point in my father’s end of life journey that we would have had space for any shared reflection about his life. Everything was so busy.

If you get a message that he has asked for you because he wants to apologize - then your response could be different, but if you want to send him your thoughts I would be doing it in a letter. In that way you won’t be interrupted. You won’t get in to a discussion - just that “this is how it was from my perspective”.

I wish you well. Your childhood was not what you deserved.

I have always said I will not be attending his funeral. I have nothing nice to add, no platitudes to say, no memories of happy times to share. I can’t think of a single redeeming quality or contribution he has made to the world that we could use in a service.

I would have nothing to say that would bring any value to a service or the day. How could I sit there and listen to a vicar talk about him nicely, knowing what he did and who he was. I will not pretend or create a fake a story to pretend he was something that he isn’t. I couldn’t live with myself. So I won’t be going whatever happens.

And working hard to feed his family will all have been part of an outward persona that he wanted to portray to others - strong man who provides.

Don’t be fooled in to thinking he did that for you.

Then I’m pleased you have your very clear answer OP.
Even his coming death does not oblige you to see his terrifying eyes again.
I’m so sorry for those feelings his evil eyes inflicted on you as a child. x

Just read the posters above. They were written after I had started my response. Maybe I should not have mentioned a letter because it was outside my experience. My experience was about a sick/dying father. That was what I wanted to describe - I should stick to what I know.

You may do this already OP but after finishing therapy with a great therapist quite a while ago now I occasionally dialogue with her in my journal. Her voice is imagined obviously, but I find it helpful both as a way of getting in touch with what she would say to me & of stopping my thoughts going round in circles. Writing a letter to your father will be imagining a hostile audience; might be worth imagining talking to a supportive one too.

Not at all @motherbear44 A letter is a really common thing that can help some people
Journals are good or burn books
The OPs feelings make no difference to her father , they didn't make him treat her well as a child , a letter he half reads without his glasses on whilst moaning about nurses, being selfish etc won't even come near. In fact, they are likely to cast OP as the villain again "even when I am dying all she does is send a nasty letter"

He didn’t care about you when you were vulnerable. Now he is the vulnerable one

You're just a stranger on the internet but what you're saying resonates with me. Probably because my mother grew up similarly (add in sexual and religious abuse) and managed to partially break away. But she didn't cut contact with her mother until I was in my late 20ies and I honestly wish she had (her mother claiming that her father was forced to hurt her because she was a difficult girl etc)...

It's the abusers' playbook. And I hope you're proud that you managed to see through this. You were strong enough to stand up to your father as a child and you were strong enough to leave and cut contact. That is amazing! Well done!! I am genuinely happy for you, dear internet stranger 💐💐

The worry I have is that he did pay for me, he worked long hours to provide, and he worked hard.

Providing for one's children's physical and emotional needs is a parent's duty. He definitiely did not provide emotionally and due to the physical abuse it's debatable whether he even managed to cover the physical aspects of parenthood.

He did work hard for us…. Should I acknowledge that? To yourself? Sure.

It's good that he didn't kill you via starvation. It's good that you had a roof over your head. It's good that you were too strong for him, that he didn't manage to break your spirit. But to him? No, I do not think that you should seek contact or give him any opportunity to hold his "achievements as a father" over your head.

To summarise: His achievements were not letting you die. Despite his best efforts - considering the physical abuse, no change in behaviour or mindset after your suicide attempts! That is what one might acknowledge, if one wanted to... That he did not manage to kill you, break you and that you managed to get away.

I hadn’t really considered that a letter might compromise me. Yes I can really see that putting all of my feelings into a letter might in fact compromise me. Give him ammunition and more power.

He knows where I am, and he has never once felt the need to reach out even with this news. Nothing has changed.

Maybe he is expecting me to come back - tail firmly between my legs - contrite and sad, wishing for a better ending. No doubt he has calculated this might work in his favour. I don’t know.

Of course you know him. There’s nothing hidden there.