My Incel father and brother

[Inshockandsome]

I am not sure what to do.

All of my life I have lived under a cloud of misogyny and I have been treated like a second class citizen in my own home. There to serve and know my place. Initially as a child I became a tom boy to take the pressure off - because I recognised my femininity as a vulnerability.

I was beaten, demeaned and consistently emotionally abused. I was objectified, and told my education doesn’t matter as I will just be married and have children anyway. It was a toxic environment to grow up in.

My father openly demeans all of the women around us - waiters, bar people - anyone that is female. The women he hated most were strong women or anyone that dared to challenge him. He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother ‘quiet’. My mother has always stood by him, despite his open contempt of her.

I found my voice as a teenager and stood up to him. He reacted with extreme violence, he would use ritual humiliation and weaponised my body against me. A severe eating disorder followed, multiple suicide attempts before I escaped.

My grandmother (his mother) died and he didn’t seem too bothered. His main interest was his inheritance.

Fast forward to today, my mother tells me he follows certain ‘groups’ on line. He speaks openly now of his feelings around strong men, weak women etc. I had to remove my children from their lives years ago. I have stopped contact for many years.

My brother is now the same. Ruined by his enduring dislike of women, despite having a wife and 3 x dds.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

This all centres him again though. It gives him a power he doesn't deserve and makes OP submissive again by saying she hopes he understands why she won't visit

You can speak ill of the dead,when the time comes they don't care, if he is an twat in life he won't suddenly become a saint after he dies.
Hope your sil sees sense and kicks her twat of an h to the kerb rather than raising the next genration of damaged kids.

I’m so sorry you went through all this, OP. TBH I’d be tempted to go and see him in his last days and say ‘I’m glad you’re dying, you were an utterly vile father to me, you horrible apology for a man.’

I doubt I’d actually do it, though, except (many times) in my head. Sometimes though it can be very therapeutic to write a letter saying absolutely everything you feel - but not send it. Somehow the act of (hand) writing it all down, does apparently help.

What a brilliant idea, an image that speaks louder than words.

I hope you find it, OP, or can generate one using AI 🌞

I'd love to know what you picture in your mind. In mine, you are waving goodbye from the safety of a lovely little bubble of happiness that he never achieved in his own sad little life.

True, but it centres him briefly, only to show him how very little he really mattered in the end.

A lot of what you write resonates with me. My father was anti feminism, beat me frequently well into my teenage years and mostly spared my brother. He wasn’t as vicious against women as your father sounds. I had huge conflict when he developed dementia ( a widower by then) and I had to pick up organising his care and basically managing all his affairs , visit him
weekly etc. I also had counselling (18 months). Guilt can be really draining and counselling isn’t always enough to extinguish it. Writing a letter, having that opportunity to fully expressed his effect on you might be therapeutic and give you the power back . Leaving things closed and unsaid isn’t always psychologically helpful, in my opinion.

One of my counselling sessions I was told to write all my thoughts and feelings towards the people who abused me down. Don't show it to anyone but then take out your temper out on it. Some might tie it on an effergy of the person. Then you rip it up and burn it.

I agree. Neither of these men are incels. They are extremists in their views.

OP take control. Buy a nice bottle of wine and toast whatever is taking him. That is what I did when my Grandmother died. She was a monster. I was sitting in a wood having a lovely picnic while she was being buried.

A letter could open up some back lash OP- either to you or your mum. Only you know whether it’s worth it.

You could write the letter but not send it. Or you could just let him die.

Buy a nice bottle of wine and toast whatever is taking him.

Sorry I sniggered at this one 🤣🤣

Exactly this. The silence will hurt/enrage him way more than anything else every could.

Yes, but he was a shitty father. Really, truly shitty.

He doesn’t deserve to have you in his life, even as it’s ending.

Haha me too

@Inshockandsome who told you he was dying? Has he asked for you? Sorry if I missed that?

My mother told me. I checked with an aunt to be sure, and it is true.

No, he definitely has not asked for me or shown any sign at all that he is interested in seeing me or us again. I realise how far I have come as I write that, because the immense pain of knowing that he really doesn’t care used to be so difficult to admit. I used to imagine he loved me a little bit.

This now confirms what I already know deep down, and I can say it very concisely and not feel the usual deep pain. To accept he can’t/won’t love me or care for me, and not feel rocked by it emotionally.

So yes the original quandary of what to do is mine not his.

With reference to the art I picture a snowy landscape, a forest with thick heavy snowfall hanging on branches of elderly oak trees. There is a wooden cabin full of warmth and fairy lights. The door is closed. Outside the cabin there is a little girl sitting in snow alone, illuminated from the cabin lights. She looks away towards the woods. Outlined in the distance there are fairy lights swaying highlighted by the moon, an outline only of a gathering further away. It looks like she intends to go there soon to see what it is, but for now she sits alone.

With reference to the art I picture a snowy landscape, a forest with thick heavy snowfall hanging on branches of elderly oak trees. There is a wooden cabin full of warmth and fairy lights. The door is closed. Outside the cabin there is a little girl sitting in snow alone, illuminated from the cabin lights. She looks away towards the woods. Outlined in the distance there are fairy lights swaying highlighted by the moon, an outline only of a gathering further away. It looks like she intends to go there soon to see what it is, but for now she sits alone.

That is so sad and so beautiful.

you won't show him anything- he isn't like a normal person

My psychotherapist explained to me that she couldn’t diagnose people she hasn’t assessed, but in her forty years of experience I should very much consider him to have the traits of a psychopath, and treat him accordingly, not to expect him to respond in normal ways.

After she said that, I realised I was lucky to be alive at all. For me living like that had become normalised, I had never questioned it. When I saw loving fathers I assumed they were play acting as a child, and would also be monstrous at home.

This is how to process- write, write , write

Don't look for the image- don't take any time out of your lovely life to find an image to send him that he may or may not open- may or may not look at
Describe the image, write it over and over again - explore the images and feelings with a therapist
I know I am sounding really bossy - hopefully you can work out, I've been there!
I had a lovely stepdad - now, for him, I'd walk the world to find the perfect card

That's a beautiful and moving image 💗 but I'd worry that someone as groteseque as him might misinterpret it as "If only this happy life would let me in; instead, I'm sitting here thinking of you."

The image will mean nothing

This is a man who saw no problem with abusing a child. He isn't going to be pondering the deep meaning of a picture

Exactly this.

The image is good as a tool for OP to process things, but not something to be shared with an abusive psychopath.

I’m sorry but your mother has told you all of this most likely to justify her own decision to stay and to ease her own guilt for not protecting you.

Everything you have mentioned your dad did for you is basic parenting that you are supposed to do when you choose to have children. It’s a given that you shouldn’t squander your children’s future on Guinness.

Did you cover your relationship with your mother in therapy? If you don’t mind sharing, what type of church do you go to? I do notice that on the one hand they can provide great community for people with difficult families but some also have some warped ideas when it comes to gratitude and forgiveness imo.

*Duplicate

I wouldn’t send a letter. You say you don’t expect a reply but also say if one comes you’ll give it to your DH. So there’s a part if you that thinks one MIGHT come. Thats the part that’s vulnerable to more pain - whether you read it or not, whether he replies or not. You’ll be wondering what he thought when he read it; or did he read it etc.

Do go back into therapy though because this doesn’t feel like total acceptance of who he was. Truth is, a young healthy man who is a vicious abusive mysogynist just becomes an old unhealthy vicious abusive mysogynist.

If he wants to reach out, he can. He won’t: it’s not in his nature. Make peace with that through therapy.

You do sound lovely, and, worryingly, vulnerable to deep pain. But you’ve got good scaffolding around you to get through it.