My Incel father and brother

[Inshockandsome]

I am not sure what to do.

All of my life I have lived under a cloud of misogyny and I have been treated like a second class citizen in my own home. There to serve and know my place. Initially as a child I became a tom boy to take the pressure off - because I recognised my femininity as a vulnerability.

I was beaten, demeaned and consistently emotionally abused. I was objectified, and told my education doesn’t matter as I will just be married and have children anyway. It was a toxic environment to grow up in.

My father openly demeans all of the women around us - waiters, bar people - anyone that is female. The women he hated most were strong women or anyone that dared to challenge him. He said he hated ‘kids’ and never intended to have a relationship with me. I was there only to keep my mother ‘quiet’. My mother has always stood by him, despite his open contempt of her.

I found my voice as a teenager and stood up to him. He reacted with extreme violence, he would use ritual humiliation and weaponised my body against me. A severe eating disorder followed, multiple suicide attempts before I escaped.

My grandmother (his mother) died and he didn’t seem too bothered. His main interest was his inheritance.

Fast forward to today, my mother tells me he follows certain ‘groups’ on line. He speaks openly now of his feelings around strong men, weak women etc. I had to remove my children from their lives years ago. I have stopped contact for many years.

My brother is now the same. Ruined by his enduring dislike of women, despite having a wife and 3 x dds.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

He wouldn't give a toss if OP did that, he sounds too full of his own self importance.

@Inshockandsome you write so beautifully.

I hope posting is helping you to process your feelings. And stop him from taking up too much space in your mind.

Does your dm see your dcs? Obviously they won't have met your ef (evil father)

And yes he's definitely a psychopath. There's no good in him.

My mother the victim but also sadly a covert narcissist that wasn’t able to look after her own dc in the way most mothers do. We did cover my mother, because my therapist was working hard to help me see she was also accountable. I have always struggled to see her as anything other than a victim of his as well. Now I am older and have dc, I can see she completely failed to protect me, she has apologised for her part in my childhood. She accepts it was very far from ideal, but she loves my father or is enmeshed and isn’t going anywhere. She even renewed her vows, and expected us all there to celebrate. Even her own family looked very uncomfortable with it all.

I went to a very normal Christian village church, it was part of my school and I attended every Sunday and Wednesday.

It proved to be a wonderful thing for me, offering kindness, security and a solid base. I always knew if things became even worse at home, I could tell someone there, and would be listened to (It gave me strength) and for that I will always be grateful to the church, it offered me shelter and quiet, and I could also see one day I would have that kind of stability and calm in my own life.

@Inshockandsome I'm amazed that someone from church didn't inform SS.

No, the only time that happened was at school, and I’m not sure what happened, I was too young. I just remember my mother warning me repeatedly that if I ever told anyone I would be taken away forever by strangers.

I grew up in the late 70s/80s dc were regularly smacked and hit, with belts etc - it is completely different now. I consider this a real achievement in this country, the safety and care of children has improved vastly in my life time.

Him having paid for you and not killed you is setting the bar ridiculously low. Try to reframe this in your mind. Him paying for you is part of you being under his control. You are not in any way indebted to him for it.

It sounds like you’ve come a long way. Don’t go back. He’ll be dead soon, thank goodness.

Dare I ask why you still have a relationship with your mum? She enabled his behaviour and discouraged you from telling anyone. She is complicit in your abuse.

He let you down. You owe him nothing.

Am sure others have probably said this but, strip away all the incel and misogyny stuff for a moment.

The bottom line is that this man physically beat you. Your parents were supposed to protect you and they didn't, they inflicted harm on you either directly or as an active bystander.

If you feel you need closure, then write a letter. But be prepared to be accused of making a dying man's last days even more sad. You shouldn't give a shit about how it makes him feel but other family members may come at you for this, and that would only cause you more stress.

The best and safest thing you can do is cut ties completely with him, your mum and your brother. That is the only guarantee you have of protecting yourself and your children (if you have any).

I think your seriously ill father should only allow men to care for him. See how he gets on.

Love it 👏🏻💐

😂 Quite!

I am very low contact with my mother. I can’t quite bring myself to cut her off. I haven’t seen her in person for a long time, but I do stay in touch. She has cut me off a number if times for months. She periodically gets angry that I won’t tolerate my father for her benefit, and that my dc do not want a relationship with her.

Am sure others have probably said this but, strip away all the incel and misogyny stuff for a moment.

Why have numerous posters been so hung up on the OPs use of incel as short hand for a deep seated pattern of misogyny that deeply wounded the OP physically and emotionally. How do posters who have pointed this out feel this is helpful on this thread?

It’s particularly upsetting as he now follows those groups on line. Along with weird conspiracy theories and all kinds of worrying things. My mother has seen this for herself, and said he has become even worse as a result. I don’t know why these websites aren’t shut down, they are imperilling the lives of women and girls.

Hi @Amba1998 - She was in Therapy but the Therapist left, there was still some sessions due, she may be considering more sessions with another Therapist. But I agree with you - she does need someone to offload to and in a prrivate setting with the space and time to focus on exactly the damage he has already done and possible damage if she were to see him or the Mother. I think posting on here will give her so much of people's personal angst that she may not see the way forward for herself. I may be wrong of course it's just my feelings.

That’s understandable. It’s a horrible situation for you, you must deal with it your own way.

My brother who abused my siblings and me, one of them for decades, is the same way inclined @Inshockandsome big advocate of Andrew Tate according to his sons who have court ordered visits with him even though they don’t want anything to do with him.

That is why I am baffled by numerous posters trying to pull misogyny and incel from this discussion.

Of course men who despise women are a problem. My own father is deeply misogynistic, my mother too and it is not surprising where my brother comes from with that culture supporting him to this day.

.

He didn't work hard for you. He did what the majority of men and women did - went to work. My Mother always had at leat 3 jobs and my father always worked until late 50s when Emphysemia caught up with him really badly. He did not smoke but worked in environments where stuff/asbestos got on your chest. He did not apply for any compensation and died at 1 month before he was 65 so never got a penny in pension either. My father did not work because he had 3 children and was married. He worked because that is what normal people do only there are more choices in employment these days. Stop believing that he did it for you. He would have still bought food/put the fire on/used electrciity/gas whether he had children or not. Stop feeling grateful. As I used to say to my father for most of my childhood from age about 8 onwards (he was cold and strict and we were unwanted girls) - I din't ask to be born.

I feel this thread is being used as a replacement for therapy.

Not in my experience, therapy is not like this. I am just thinking through my options.

it is helpful to hear other people’s experiences and thoughts. My therapist has never done either with me.

Father is now seriously ill and I have no idea what to do.

Nothing.

It wouldn't be appreciated anyway and you won't gain anything or feel better for it.

Take back control on your terms before he dies and it's on his terms as his final act.

Hi @Inshockandsome I was going to write something similar to this. Write the letter, tear it up and then burn it to ashes. It’s very cathartic. Whatever happens, I wish you well. You’re a strong person 💐

I love that. Making the art will probably be therapeutic even if you decide not to send it to him.

Yes, therapy isn't about the therapist giving you her/his opinion about what you should do or sharing his/her experiences. It's about helping you to work through your feelings. The person who made that comment probably hasn't been in therapy.
It can be like pulling teeth to get advice from a therapist. They turn it back to you because they want you to figure it out for yourself. Therapy is a tool to help you to do that and it wouldn't work if the therapist just told you what he/she thinks you should do.

Yes I grew up in the 70s.

How wicked of her.