Toxic Mother strikes again HELP!

[Peterpickedapickled]

I posted last week. To recap….
I have managed my elderly DMs difficult behaviour for years. It comes in waves over the years and depends upon whether or not I am meeting her needs. As soon as she feels I am not, her behaviour changes.
She is in constant contact with me. I struggle with boundaries. When I do enforce a boundary, she goes nuts!
I pull my guts out trying to help her whilst holding down a demanding job and a family. I listen to all her health problems and negativity because she has no one through her own choice.
She wanted a parcel taking to the post office. I agreed but said it would be next week when the parking was better. Several IMPORTANT messages later and she had changed where I could take it back to somewhere else. All because I said the parking was bad. Then she sent confusing messages saying she can take it back. This went on and on and in the end I just asked what she wanted me to do. This was all happening on my birthday when she knew I was going out. I said it was getting f**ing ridiculous. I had just had enough of it all!

Bad move I guess! She demanded an apology, said I was making a drama out of it, said I had no respect for her and that she would never ask me to do anything for her again. She then gave me the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

I have been away with my DH and DD and I have tried not to let it spoil our break but it’s been hard. I am so tired of her behaviour and very low and emotional.

My DD is 14 soon. I finally got a message from DM today letting me know that she is giving her money for her birthday.

She went in to say she has texted my DD asking if she is going away as she knew we were thinking about it. She hates giving money as it’s like you can’t be bothered but she doesn’t want to get her anything if she won’t be around. She stated that “just because we are not amicable doesn’t mean it needs to be inflicted on my DD. I missed hearing about her recent trip with school”

For context, DM was invited to my home when my DD came back from the trip so she could share pics etc. This was just after the parcel debacle and I decided it may be best if we go to her as I knew she was unhappy with me. I suggested this and that’s when she kicked off and went silent.

I just don’t know what to do for the best. I don’t want NC at the moment as this would be a massive step that I must feel 100% comfortable with. She is 85 and it’s difficult for me. I feel so confused but know what I feel about our relationship isn’t right. I don’t know whether it’s me thats the issue or her. My DH tells me it’s her.

I am trying not to reply but that doesn’t feel right either. I just don’t know how to handle it. I have been handling it wrong for years because I allow her in, to take over, I give her everything she wants. I can’t stop myself.

I am now seriously considering some counselling if I can afford it. I have realised that all the times I have felt off, aching everywhere, migraines, restless, confused, agitated, it’s in part, due to her behaviour and my fear of repercussions. I am even seeing a physio who told me my pain was stress related.

Thanks for reading x

@TooTedious WOW thank you for this amazing advice.

I am definitely listening and have already started putting things into practice. I have had enough and it’s feels different this time. Like the end of the road.

@Quicknamechangex2x2 Feel free to DM me if you need to let of steam. I will always reply to you. I think our situation is very similar. I hate to say this, but my GM lived until she was 102 years old so there could be a fair few years left in the old sods yet!!!

Thank you @Peterpickedapickled . 102 you say .... how cheering 😁😂.

Good luck with it all. I let myself get to the verge of a nervous breakdown before going NC, just make sure you don’t let it get to that stage yourself. You deserve better. Mine was incredibly cruel and toxic throughout my whole life. It was like she really hated me. Last texts I had from her before cutting her off were ones telling me I’d probably get breast cancer due to our family history. This was literally less than a week after I’d had major surgery to remove a large lump (not from breast) and was waiting to hear if it was malignant or not. Thankfully it was fine but this crazy toxic behaviour was typical. Sadly naturally you do feel guilty about going NC initially, but as time passes, it eases and for me a lifelong knot of anxiety in my chest lifted. Then I realised the title of mother needs to be earned, not given just because they physically gave birth to us. Some people really shouldn’t have children.

@Houndymumma Gosh she sounds spiteful! I try very hard not to treat my DD like DM treats me. I try not to tell her what she should and push her to my way of thinking. I also let her express herself with her goth makeup and dress and I support her to love herself. My DM would have made nasty comments about how I looked or tried to get me to dress the way she wanted. My DD has the confidence I never had. She has even stood her ground with my DM before.

I just try to guide and support her and let her know I am also here if she needs to talk about anything. I want her to be independent of me and her DF and to live life on her terms, not worry about her parents!

I have never been a daughter, more like a best friend or counsellor and that sucks. She doesn’t play the role of parent.

Its the years of her being unhappy with me about the simplest of things that no one else finds a problem.

She deliberately made you feel flawed to chip away at your confidence, she wanted you to have no confidence.

It’s the total selfishness. On the way back from hospital and having spoken to consultants about DD being at end of life, she wanted me to take her to the supermarket. In a conversation a week after his death, I said I had never seen DD cry, she told me the only time was when I had done XYZ and upset him! Of all the things you want to hear when you a bereaved. Nasty women really.

She was angry you were grieving about your dad, as far as she is concerned she is more important so you should just snap out of it. She made you take her shopping as you are meant to be more concerned with her needs. When you told her you hadn’t seen your dad cry before, she tried to make out you were a bad daughter.

She once told me she felt very depressed when I went on a holiday! I don’t forget these remarks, ever!

She wanted to spoil your holiday worrying about her, she hates not being able to demand attention and getting you to jump through hoops.

Hi Peter. It really is a difficult situation when a parent is so old, and as you say, the guilt that you feel in case something happens etc. But what I didn’t mention in the last post was that, I was not the first child to break contact with her. Without going into too much detail, my mother was very divisive with us kids. So, if she had a beef with one of us, the others just weren’t allowed to talk to you. So, even though, in our own right, we all have normal lives, friends, families, jobs etc, we ended up not close to each other, and one of my siblings broke contact about six years before me. One sibling left who, from a mutual friend, I know is still in contact with my mother but I know that the relationship is fractious , in her early twenties she went off grid with all of us for about five years. I have a lot of caring responsibilities, and at the end I had to put myself and my family first, even though, I’m not a monster, I do understand that it may be scary for her not to have a lot of family support around her. But, she really, really was a problem, very selfish. If she didn’t get her own way, well, you would pay, silent treatment. The one silver lining is that, I wasn’t really “allowed” to have a relationship with my dad. Well she couldn’t stop me, but if she found out we’d spoken it would be, why are you bothering with him, he’s never bothered with you, he doesn’t care about you etc etc, but since the estrangement from my mother, I have become closer to dad, and, although I know there are two sides to every story, I have been shocked at the distorted truth I have been fed. So, perhaps sometimes someone can really push you over the edge, you just don’t have a choice.

You had no choice then did you. It’s awful what happened to you. My mother just decided to put herself first and centre when I was going through the worst period of my life and I just decided, if someone who is supposed to care for you can be so selfish, what’s the point in carrying on? Like you, I felt, and feel to this day like a weight has been lifted.

@Tryingtobehappytomorrow123 I really appreciate you honest and open post. Thank you

I too got closer to my Dad when he and DM divorced. DD had his faults and they just didn’t get along anymore. There was friction and frustration because my DB was getting in trouble with the police and wouldn’t take a job. Then he moved out but kept coming back for money. My DD adopted him but then my DB changed his name to my DM maiden name and it got worse from there. There were some physical fights at home.

DM use to talk about my DD to me and I found myself taking sides. When he left I started seeing him weekly and I realised that he wasn’t what she had painted him to be and he became a support to me with DM.

In a way I feel a bit robbed of the time I could have spent getting to know the real him. Not the person he was painted to be. DM would stop him from meeting friends at the pub and she would complain constantly about his family.

DF was in the army and DM always said he was odd because he had no friends in the army. She was always putting him down.

He was a different person without her. I don’t like what she did there.

@Quicknamechangex2x2 the crisis before you go away is exactly because you are going away. No matter where I went or what I had planned my mother did the same. Cause an argument just because she wanted a crisis before I had any fun. They are total fun sponges because they are deeply unhappy within themselves.

OP you wont get her diagnosed but she has every narc trait she genuinely sounds like my mother and i went no contact with her when she was 75 and I do not care about her age. I have nothing to feel guilty about, she has but never will as there is not an ounce of empathy inside her. These people are selfish to the core and if something is not about them they WILL ruin it for others.

@Tryingtobehappytomorrow123 triangulation tactics, my narc mother did same. Divide and conquer was her thing. Sickening to actively pitt your kids against each other but this is what they do. Monsters.

The sad thing is, it was only when I met my husband, and saw how his family were (normal), that I realised how out of whack our family was. I still carried on though, for years, trying to appease her, but unless you were putting her first, she wasn’t happy. Nobody wants to break contact with their family. I was very embarrassed even explaining to friends, who for the most part didn’t realise how bad things had been. I’ve had a couple of people who have said things like, how could you stop seeing your mother, but it doesn’t hurt me, you can’t expect most people to understand, and if they criticise you when they don’t know your experience, don’t worry about what they think.

Yes, I recognise that type of behaviour too. She would say in front of others, I’ll come and look after the kids, I’ll help you with the ironing, that type of thing. Then Of course when it came to doing anything it never actually materialised, she wanted others to think she was helping, because let’s face it, a friend wouldn’t say, oh, did you go and help,out with the kids? They would just assume that as it had been said it would happen. And if she ever did anything for you? By god you would have to return the favour. This is no word of a lie. When my first was born, my husband asked her to pick up a few bits from the shop for us for our return from hospital. Six days later she phoned and said it’s your turn now to do some shopping for me. She told me she couldn’t come over to help with the baby because she had to work, then I found out she’d been away with her friends down south. But if you pulled her up on anything, shouting, vitriol, slamming doors, honestly, I think the word toxic can sometimes be overused but, looking back that’s the only way I can really describe it.

Also, thanks for the name, triangulation, I’ll look into that. It’s evil, because surely you should want your kids to have a good relationship. Now I’ve got kids I can not imagine, in any way, trying to get them to take sides against each other on my behalf. It caused so many problems, and you can imagine the arguments back and forth. And now, instead of sharing families and experiences we are all strangers, all of us. People have said, try to have a relationship, but there is too much water under the bridge.

I’m going to share (one of the many reasons) why I understand you. I am an Aussie but was living with my DH and three little kids in the Netherlands when my Dad was diagnosed with MND. I can’t tell you the number of times I flew (leaving my poor kids and DH behind) back due to some “emergency” to find Dad dehydrated, the care workers I’d organised dismissed, and the place a fucking mess. She would be sitting in the sun on her phone telling everyone how much she did for him (neglect) and how it affected HER. I had doctors calling me in NL because they were worried about him being trapped and appointments missed, etc.
Then almost immediately after he died, she was dx’ed with lung cancer & COPD. She totally lied about it all and went on a fucking insane spending spree - for my oxygen-wasting brother. Bought him a house, appliances, etc. New car because “He has dreams too, you know….” It was a slow illness progression. Took seven years. She was so very nasty. Biting, scratching, spewing venom about how she wished I had died when I was born, they knew I had brain damage (not true) and they only resuscitated me because they thought she couldn’t have more kids - luckily she did, because she’d never known love until she had my brother, etc, etc…. Again, so many flights (at my own stupid expense) back to look after her because DB was sitting in his van (another gift) on a tropical beach somewhere.
Towards the end, she lost her filter entirely and other people heard how she REALLY spoke to me and what she really thought. (That was almost gratifying.)
On the day of her funeral, my lovely DH asked if there was anything he could do to make the day easier for me, and I asked him if he knew where we could get wooden stakes and holy water. (We were laughing so hard when we arrived, people thought my tears were from grief. It was the delirious, out of control laugh until you cry of the exhausted and overhwhelmed.)
Hand on heart, I regret every single second I took away from my kids and DH and gave to her. I was trapped in the role of dutiful daughter, who had been conditioned to think she was the only one who could step in. Really, I was just a vessel for her to expel her rage.

Nodding sadly in agreement with all the posts since my last one but also absolutely exhausted but just wanted to say its so weird they feel they are this centre of the universe and so wonderful and brilliant and different when in reality they are all the same. They do the same things, say the same things it is like a mentally wired or instilled way of being. It is crazy to normal people. I will come back on tomorrow as I do have experience as posters above but honestly it is them that are delusional not us.

This venomous insane rage & toxicity you describe are so familiar to me, it’s strange these mothers are all so alike. Plus the large financial gifts to the male child, my DB was given a huge amount towards his house. Your sentence, ‘Really, I was just a vessel for her to expel her rage’ is so accurate and sums up my entire relationship with my DM. However I won’t let her define my life and now I’m NC (for a good few years) I can move forwards and it’s easier to see her more clinically than emotionally.

Also I completely understand the stake and holy water comment, although I’ve already made it clear to everyone I won’t be attending any funerals, I might have to sneak back afterwards with the stake and holy water! ♥️

Hugs to all dealing with this… I meant to say that I was thoroughly traumatized by my mother’s behaviour and statements (her TRUE feelings with no filter) that I needed counselling for quite a long time. To grieve the mother I had never had and to exorcise the terrorist that raised me.

The stake and holy water thing made me snort because I remember once the mother asking if I think many people will attend her funeral and I replied well no matter what I will be there - possibly in handcuffs and flanked by police but I will be there. She found it funny. I had mental visions of it being true.

God that is so scary and sad. People just don’t understand do they, they assume a mother is some revered person who always has the best for you in mind. My mother used to make my disabled son an excuse to friends when she didn’t want to do something. I’ll always, always remember a time when she told me she’d be invited to a few things, she didn’t want to go, so she said she couldn’t because of my sons illness, but then she didn’t come over at all during that period, so she was using his illness to make out she was a Florence nightingale figure, as if she was supporting me, it was disgusting. She used to live, literally, around the corner, then when my first was six months old, she moved about half hour away, fair enough. But then used to pop over every couple of weeks or so to give us a break for two hours, (and I’m not exaggerating and she was returned by this time) but if you ever heard her on the phone to her friends she was over all the time, helping me out. I really don’t know how she had the nerve. Your story is worse though by far and I am really sorry for the shit you had to take, she really was a monster

Again your last sentence is absolutely spot on. My DM was also very physically violent when I was a child. It does take time and a lot of outside help and it does leave its mark, but we’re not alone and through threads like this I’ve been sadly surprised how common this type of mother is. I’ve also found threads like this very helpful as you find people that really understand.

Also just to add different children within the same families can have different childhoods. I was 10 years older than my sibling so had the first 10 years alone with her. She wasn’t physically violent to DB as a child and I tried to protect him from her rage as a baby. So he has very different memories. Then he’s been the golden child later on lavished with money, praise & gifts, well up until I went NC. Think being female was a big issue, these types of mothers seem to have an envy or rivalry towards female children but adore the males. Takes a while to recover but I have my own wonderful daughter now and it was a lesson on how not to be a mother. These mothers are bitter and unhappy sorts, my advice to anyone is you deserve better and don’t need to tolerate this behaviour.

She then turned on my DD saying she only text my DM when she sent her some money and didn’t call her

Most of what you have written is about you and your mum.

You need to focus more on protecting your DD from your mum. Keep them apart. Don't let her damage your poor DD any more than she already has.

No matter how absolutely screwed up you are by this evil woman, you still have a duty to protect your DD.

(I'm saying this because it may help you, not to put the boot in).

@Houndymumma - mine too. I had ten broken arms before high school. Word was that I was a “terribly uncoordinated kid.”

I remember watching a program many years ago about men who were brought up without their fathers being present in their lives and now they all had children. The therapist who was talking on the show described to then their 'inner child' (first time I had heard this expression). How these fathers could by spending time with their own children doing pleasant activities helps to heal the little boy within them. Maybe the same can help those with toxic parents by parenting or in this case mothering ourselves with love and kindness could help us to recover.

Yes , I’m sorry but you need to give many less fucks. That message wouldn’t so much upset me as piss me off, and my reply would be I’m sorry you feel that way, let us know when you do want to see dd, and of course you have her number. then I’d mute it for a day and get on with life. Drama free.
the parcel - id interrupt the back and forth about drop it somewhere else etc to say look I’m obviously not dropping a parcel anywhere on my birthday, but happy to help next week if it can wait and you’ve worked out what you want, it all sounds a bit confusing now. Got to go, bye!