Toxic Mother strikes again HELP!

[Peterpickedapickled]

I posted last week. To recap….
I have managed my elderly DMs difficult behaviour for years. It comes in waves over the years and depends upon whether or not I am meeting her needs. As soon as she feels I am not, her behaviour changes.
She is in constant contact with me. I struggle with boundaries. When I do enforce a boundary, she goes nuts!
I pull my guts out trying to help her whilst holding down a demanding job and a family. I listen to all her health problems and negativity because she has no one through her own choice.
She wanted a parcel taking to the post office. I agreed but said it would be next week when the parking was better. Several IMPORTANT messages later and she had changed where I could take it back to somewhere else. All because I said the parking was bad. Then she sent confusing messages saying she can take it back. This went on and on and in the end I just asked what she wanted me to do. This was all happening on my birthday when she knew I was going out. I said it was getting f**ing ridiculous. I had just had enough of it all!

Bad move I guess! She demanded an apology, said I was making a drama out of it, said I had no respect for her and that she would never ask me to do anything for her again. She then gave me the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

I have been away with my DH and DD and I have tried not to let it spoil our break but it’s been hard. I am so tired of her behaviour and very low and emotional.

My DD is 14 soon. I finally got a message from DM today letting me know that she is giving her money for her birthday.

She went in to say she has texted my DD asking if she is going away as she knew we were thinking about it. She hates giving money as it’s like you can’t be bothered but she doesn’t want to get her anything if she won’t be around. She stated that “just because we are not amicable doesn’t mean it needs to be inflicted on my DD. I missed hearing about her recent trip with school”

For context, DM was invited to my home when my DD came back from the trip so she could share pics etc. This was just after the parcel debacle and I decided it may be best if we go to her as I knew she was unhappy with me. I suggested this and that’s when she kicked off and went silent.

I just don’t know what to do for the best. I don’t want NC at the moment as this would be a massive step that I must feel 100% comfortable with. She is 85 and it’s difficult for me. I feel so confused but know what I feel about our relationship isn’t right. I don’t know whether it’s me thats the issue or her. My DH tells me it’s her.

I am trying not to reply but that doesn’t feel right either. I just don’t know how to handle it. I have been handling it wrong for years because I allow her in, to take over, I give her everything she wants. I can’t stop myself.

I am now seriously considering some counselling if I can afford it. I have realised that all the times I have felt off, aching everywhere, migraines, restless, confused, agitated, it’s in part, due to her behaviour and my fear of repercussions. I am even seeing a physio who told me my pain was stress related.

Thanks for reading x

@IAmQuiteNiceActually thanks for the advice. I am never sure how to handle the relationship between DM and DD. My DD isn’t that bothered and any contact is facilitated by me for my DM. DD is a teenager so she just wants to spend time with her friends!

I have always thought my DMs behaviour with DD has been odd. Always tripping over herself to pander to her. I get grandparents do that but it’s too much with my DM. She has also told me a number of times that she sees DD as her child which I felt weird about.

She goes overboard with gifts but never picks up the phone to call her!!?

Hi OP, I have a similar DM.

Your DM, like mine will never change, accept that.

Without going all therapy speak on you. You need to heal yourself. Your DM has done quite a number on you. None of this is your fault. Please try and get some counselling.

My DM has recently hurt me again but after so much therapy, her behaviour isn't having half the affect on me. I accept now that she won't change, I've backed away 90% from her, my interactions are purely superficial, her words to me now bounce off me and I know they are not about me, they are about her. I have and am still grieving for the DM I always wanted but I'll never have.

Please get therapy. None of this is your fault.

@PicturePuzzle and so they continue to hurt to fill the missing gaps in their lives. They should work on themselves instead of putting all their hurt on other people. My DB speaks to her like dirt and always has but she never falls out with him. He put distance between them and doesn’t put up with her behaviour at all.

She is texting me now. I can hear the desperation in her texts. She didn’t get the reaction she assumed she would so now she is trying another tactic. She has message to say that it’s my DD birthday soon (not for a couple of weeks!!) and she hasn’t missed a birthday in years (she has!!) and she doesn’t have any to start now. She has changed her mind and doesn’t want to give money so are the gifts she was going to get her still available or have I bought them. She wants to know if she can come and give them to her. Signed let me know what you think xx.

Honestly what a manipulate arse hole she is. I have no words at all!

i could have written all you have. I have no advice as it is just awfully hard. The manipulation is huge and the accusations that shake my understanding of who I am. I feel rage, hurt, guilt, disbelief. I now have superficial conversations that she hates as well but there is underlaying criticism of all I say. I take comfort that I am not alone in this bizarre relationship issue.

I agree with all this and abandon all sincere communication with the terminally insincere.

I personally think you could do with being a bit more assertive with your DM.

Reading through the parcel issue, what a mountain out of a molehill!

You agreed to do something then started waffling on about difficult parking. Why would parking be easier in a weeks time? She clearly then went to do some research and found an alternative for you, then got fed up of you making excuses about parking so said she'd do it herself. Then you swore at the situation.

"Yes, mum, I will post the parcel for you", or "No mum, the parking is awful so I won't be able to post the parcel, sorry".

Needy people can be a pain, but it's best just to be assertive and give straightforward answers.

@PoshDuckQuarkQuark you're absolutely right. I do need to be more assertive. She wanted me to take the parcel back that day but it was a Saturday and you just can’t get parked anywhere so I said I would do it in the week instead. Of course you are right, I should have just kept my mouth shut and done it when I could. This is part of my problem, I feel like I have to explain in case she gets mad that I didn’t take it back straight away. It’s always like this. Over explaining because I fear she will be unhappy with something. I am always trying to please it’s ridiculous.

She has ruined so many good things. Like my wedding on a cruise when my 4 year old DD cried in the restaurant and DM started getting agitated. She offered to leave with her but my DH said he would do it and walk around with her so she could fall asleep. She ended up storming out, we had nothing to eat and spent a few hours looking for her all over the ship. I asked by DH to apologise of course. She complained to everyone about everything dispite having not paid a penny because my DD paid for her (they were already divorced by then).

@mumonthehill just wanted to say I understand, it’s rubbish and I don’t know why it has to be so difficult. Hugs to youx

Sympathies, OP. You asked for advice. The thing that springs to mind is something it took me a long time to figure out - you can't please an unpleasable person. So you can stop trying. Admittedly, my circumstances didn't involve an 85 year old mother, so maybe you can't stop altogether. But you can decide not to take it personally. It's about her, not you. Good luck

She ruined your childhood and your FOG fear, obligation and guilt, has brought it into your marriage, home and your children's childhood.

This is now intergenerational trauma.
Your children will clearly remember how your relationship with her impacted their childhood.

How you put her first, ahead of them.

Apologies if that is harsh, but lots of other people make tough choices to not allow such chaotic toxicity into their lives and homes.

You know it causes you to withdraw from family life. You know your children can sense your upset, yet you continue to allow it to continue.

You didn't ask to be born, nor did your children, yet they are having their childhood spoiled by your toxic relationship with your mother.

I simply couldn't allow such toxicity near my children so I did make very different choices to protect them.

In essence you have put your mother and yourself ahead of your husbands/childrens best interests.

You deserved better, but absolutely so do your children.
You CAN choose differently.

Look up some good resources about FOG and have some notes and pointers written down somewhere handy for if she calls..... but only speak to her on your terms.

Honestly I do think counselling needs to be a priority cause it's really unfair on you, your husband and daughter to have to see you that upset. Work on your overall confidence as well and learn the word no. "No" as a full sentence without excuses and pandering just a simple "no I cant".

The only one who will or can change is you, your mother is incapable of changing so it's all about how you respond and deal with her. She isnt the person you want or deserve but that doesnt mean you owe her more tears or need to try and understand her, you just need to either deal with her better or go low or no contact

So you’re the whipping boy, and afraid that it could be worse if you stand up for yourself.

So to your brother, you could have replied “I notice the amount of work done for Mum done me by compared to what you do. If you in any way thought I was crap, you would insist she lived close to you. Is there reason you don’t. When you start to take half the shit from Mother Dearest that I do, you can presume to lecture me, until then, you should zip it on this topic.”

In terms of your mother, have you ever considered getting your husband to tell her to give over.
If he went around one evening, especially if she is expecting you and could quietly but firmly say “[Peter] told me how you upset her again today, don’t you think it is long past time that you stopped acting the maggot with all your old nonsense. At the end of the day, if you upset her. It is me you’re going to have to deal with, but I can tell you now, she won’t ever again be here to be treated as a dogsbody. Are we clear.”

He might also think of texting your brother to get her to rein it in, because as a family, he is making the decision that enough upset has been caused.

Don’t respond to her tonight. She needs to understand that when she says jump, you DO NOT ask ‘How high?’

Re her relationship with your dd, I strongly re you stop facilitating that. Do you really want your dd to be subject to her shit behaviour? Stop allowing her to manipulate her and you with her nonsensical messages.

Unless she physically can’t do something, you should grey rock. She doesn’t need to come to yours, you drop into hers as necessary (is it necessary? Make sure it fits with what you’re doing) Stop feeling guilty, definitely look into therapy. Her issues are not yours.

I’d reply that it would be best to send DD money, and leave it at that. We don’t have anything like this situation in our family but we have had to put our foot down occasionally where DGPs and DC gifts etc are concerned. I’ve been very firm when needed when they’ve tried to make a bit of a performance over them.

It reads to me that you bend over backwards where she’s concerned and I think you need to stop. Would it not help to frame it as what is best for you, DH and DD? Putting you all first? I’d start with this gift issue and continue on from there. Tell yourself that you will not allow her to make you tearful as that is not fair on DD and DH. Start from that position.

I’ve recently told my parents that I’ll be taking a break to give us all time and space to think. Our relationship is poor and damaged. If you’re not ready to go non contact (it’s a big step), how about some time out? It will give you a bit of breathing space.

@DoRayMeMeMe thanks for the advice.

My DB is just as nutty really.

He is my half brother, different father. DM felt guilty he left and had nothing to do with him. They lived with my grandmother for years before she met my DD. DB is not a great person. Very toxic personality. DM defended all his bad choices, times he upset people etc.

She facilitated this behaviour, that’s the reason my parents divorced in the end.

I was actually glad he doesn’t want anything to do with me. Saved me a job! There is a 10 year gap between us so I was not close to him anyway and his behaviours made me feel uncomfortable.

I asked my DH about your suggestion to confront my DM. He said he would do it with pleasure but that it would leave me with upset and trouble and it would be 10 fold. He thinks the best way to deal with her is to take a step back, distance myself as protection and to give nothing of myself. He thinks that’s the only way as he says she’s got a personality disorder! He can’t stand her and often goes out or upstairs if she ever comes to our home.

@pinkbackground hope you are okay. It’s difficult.

I was starting to enjoy the silence but I knew she would interrupt it when she wasn’t getting a reaction from me. When she messaged, I honestly felt disappointed. What I really want in this moment, is for her to pull the plug and I would happily agree. No contact and no guilt! But that’s not going to happen and I can’t bring myself just yet to be the one who instigates it.

I feel the same so I’ve told mine that I feel some
time and space will let all of our emotions settle. Itsnso difficult.

You know something else that gets me so angry, and it’s a bit daft. I lost my DD in December after a horrendous battle with a severe brain injury. I did everything I could to help him and I am still grieving. I haven’t even had his inquest yet.

She never asks how I am, never reaches out. I know I will get some stick for this but I even gave her some money from my inheritance. Enough for her to use to help her remain independent and to make her home more comfortable. She hasn’t got much money. I went and decorated for her, helped her buy furniture, gave advice and made decisions for her only to find out she hasn’t spent any of it. Wouldn’t even get a decorator in. She Had no intention whatsoever of using the money for good. It was just the attention she wanted. I know I have made a mistake but that’s me all over. I even paid for her funeral plan because she said she wouldn’t be covered paying it monthly if she died suddenly. My DD would turn in his grave if he knew.

@pinkbackground it is difficult. I dont think I have handled it right really.

When I think about all the things I have let her get away with, the money, playing favourites, criticising me, demanding, manipulating etc etc. I feel a real fool.

She even told me at Christmas that she wasn’t coming for Christmas dinner (we always had all our parents over but we lost my FIL and my DD was in a nursing home and was very unwell). The reason was due to me saying I would be visiting DD at the home on Christmas morning. She said it was a waste of her time coming to my house so was going to my DB 3 hours away. She couldn’t even support me then and was still wanting me to make a choice between her and my DD!

Read up on daughters of narcissistic mothers. It is eye opening. Sadly I have had to cut all ties with my mum as she is this toxic. EVery single word you have written I could have written myself.

@Suednymph that’s for the comment. Sorry you have had to deal with it too.

Check out the 'We took you to stately homes' threads on here. Mothers like yours and mine are far too common sadly. I wish you strength x

This sounds so familiar!!!!! I cut back on visits and phone calls for 2 weeks and was told that if I didn’t agree to contact via email that I wouldn’t be part of the family and that I would be disinherited. So, after many years of having a toxic parent cut ties completely and dropped the spare keys of to the house and have not been in contact for a number of years. It was too toxic for me and my family and there was no contact for my children (which was sad for them). However, now as teenagers they realise that I couldn’t cope with the worry of a phone call, email, negative comments, nastiness and we have now moved and not left a forwarding address. I just got scared, afraid and couldn’t put up with it anymore.

She thinks your whole life should be all about her and hates that you have your own family, she thinks you exist only to do her bidding. When you had your daughter, she tried to spoil her, to compete against you in order to turn her against you. She makes everything all about her, she even had to muscle in when your dad was dying and upset him because she wasn’t the centre of attention. Your DB is the male version of your mum!
Turn your phone off when she doesn’t get her own way, you know she is a viscous bitch and will try to punish you.
Your mum is incapable of loving anyone but herself, she has conditioned you to fear her displeasure since you were a small child. She will never be happy for you, never be supportive or have your best interests at heart, she is an emotional vampire trying to suck any pleasure from you.