To think we’ve lost the concept of men being men and women being women, and society is worse off for it?

[ThatNimbleKhakiAnt]

Traditional gender roles may not have been perfect but at least they provided structure. Now everything is blurred and instead of progress, we just have confusion. Are relationships stronger? Are people happier? I don’t think so. It feels like in trying to fix things, we’ve just made everything messier.

AIBU to think we’ve lost something valuable?

None of this waffle detracts from what I said. Averages are averages. We are first individuals and none of my strengths are linked to my gender.

That’s not what you said. You vaunted a gender essentialist approach to the strengths of the genders.

US conservatives have not hidden this is what they think.

No they haven't indeed, but I think the danger of contagion is underestimated over here and I don't think it's paranoid of me to think that it is already creeping in.

Concern of US conservative evangelicals exporting their ideas overseas is well-founded. I grew up largely in this world and this is absolutely the aim, stated overtly - I heard this many many times as a teen, and there's big money behind it. Male dominance backed by "God" and their "divine right". Anywhere that shows something different is evil, "against God" and to be conquered and burned. This is nothing new, they've been exporting this stuff since radio became a thing. Unfortunately the digital era is a boon.

I'll also add that I learned at uni (admittedly not in depth) that there's greater differences within the sex groups than there is between. Eg greater difference between man A and man B, than between man A and woman A. Anecdotally this is true within my family - DH & I don't really 'fit' traditional gender stereotypes, we're both different and similar to each other, and our boys are more different to each other than either are to their sister. Our daughter is mix of stereotype and anti-stereotype - she doesn't 'fit' either. Fortunately none of us really care - we are all male or female and the gender bollocks attached to those can take a running jump.

^ i1950's stereotypes we're post war propaganda.

What I want in life differs in no way to what my husband wants in life or other men I know. What is it you think women want vs what men want and what is the big difference?

I said what they are interested in, not what they want. I've explained what I mean in more detail in the posts above.

Ok then, how do their interests differ? I haven't seen you explain much really.

Of course they should, and they are free to express their preferences. Other women are equally free to have opinions about their preferences. Free expression works both ways or it doesn't work at all.

Spot on.

The fact that OP hasn't returned to the thread indicates that they have little of substance to say. If I'd stuck to this particular rule of thumb, my eldest child wouldn't have had food on his table or have been housed/looked after well. For him, I've provided everything that a man and woman would. I have a fantastic husband now, who is a hands on, wonderful father to our children and my eldest. Do I NEED him though? Hell no. Aside from producing sperm, I can do anything that a man is typically expected to do (in your world).

It isn't acting like a man to provide food for your child. The period of working class women exclusively sitting at home as soon as they're married to look after the house is just a short period in the history of humanity. And I say this as a SAHM for the last decade.

Why is this young woman with a 6 month old baby not on maternity pay? Why isn't her partner working? Was the baby planned? What has gone wrong? The nuance matters. Every situation differs. It might be his fault, it might not.

But either way, working to feed your child is the job of whichever parent needs or is better able to do it.

Ridicule is rude, but surely these things can be discussed and people can disagree with tradwife ideas without a anybody collapsing on a fainting couch or being triggered into a trauma reaction fgs. If people can't handle others disagreeing with their POV then why on earth do they post their opinions? If you open the door, you're inviting people to walk in. As long as those responding are civil and polite, who cares?

Totally agree. Who the fuck actually wants the real world version of handmaids tale? Convincing women that their lives are somehow better while they are resigned to the kitchen and only useful when barefoot and pregnant while men should have all the freedom and power is disgusting and dangerous.

Actually, I know exactly who would want that. Men.

I think tradwife types who complain about feminism are hypocritical ingrates. They have the legal protections and social supports that have been given to them because of feminism and without those they could be brutalized by their husbands, boyfriends or random strangers with no chance of legal consequences. They would have no DV shelters or rape crisis centers to go to and wouldn't be able to have their own bank account, so they couldn't stash away money to make their escape. They would be forced to give birth when they didn't want to, even if they were 13 years old and had been raped by their own fathers. The list of advantages they gladly (but not gratefully) accept goes on and on. Without the influence of feminism it wouldn't be safe for them to live the tradwife lifestyle. So they take advantage of what feminism has given them while at the same time saying it's made things worse and that feminists are masculine, unattractive, aggressive, man haters, bla bla bla. Yet some people think it's wrong to "judge" their opinions. 🙄 When I see brown stuff coming out the back end of a bull, I will make a judgement about it, determine that it is indeed bullshit and I will say so.

Yes how many women cant think for themselves and delude themselves to do it doesn't say much for their lack of brains

Yes how many women cant think for themselves and delude themselves to do it doesn't say much for their lack of brains

You are putting this so much more politely than I ever could.

Have you read some of the comments on here? People absolutely frothing at the mouth about it...

It’s not rude and judgmental. It’s simply a statement of fact. Here is the job description of a servant:

careercenter.natsap.org/career/servant#:~:text=A%20servant%20is%20an%20individual%20who%20provides%20various%20forms%20of,estates%20or%20providing%20personal%20care.

Oh please. A servant is not married to those they do this work for, a housewife does everything freely out of love.

How many do you know in real life? You do realise they have complete autonomy over their day and do exactly what they want, when they want? To a far greater degree than capitalist slaves?

You do realise that many women who ‘opt out’ are often very highly educated and have left very high paying careers? Certainly extremely capable of thinking for themselves.

Google ‘Missing Mothers’ for more on this from the government (they are aware 😂)- plenty of teacher Mums have decided for themselves they’d rather be at home looking after their own actual beloved children than spending the majority of their previous time with those of other people 👏🏻

Nope.

Its because of rigid views like yours that teens and young adults are thinking "I don't fit exactly into that box therefore I mustn't be female. Perhaps I'm male/non binary/dog" and feel forced to label themselves as something else that's NOT female.

Biologically speaking it seems there are many women hard wired to liking a "bad boy" ie very macho and many men hard wired into being a "bad boy" or trying to ape being one due to the success the former have with women but there's societal fallout of this, usually involving children. Can it be socialised away over time?