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To think that, under the threat of "Let the war begin", there should be specific laws against male's entering female private spaces (and vice versa)

1000 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 08/08/2025 14:46

After being told they will not be allowed to enter female toilets, changing rooms, clubs and other private sexed spaces, men have vowed to "fight" or be arrested “multiple times

https://archive.ph/tdkd0

"Let the war begin. Fingers crossed. You need to fight for all of us globally. It’s a war."

I think it is reasonable to have a specific crime for this sort of violation of rights and privacy, rather than Outraging public decency, Voyeurism, Exposure/ indecent exposure.

It seems clear that without firm dealing with, men are going to violate these spaces again and again.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
ArabellaScott · 11/08/2025 10:53

Tandora · 11/08/2025 10:29

a person who is confused / delusional / has mental health issues / has some other ulterior motive in pretending to be the opposite sex.

No trans people are not confused. They are not delusional. They do not have “ulterior motives”, they are not “pretending”.

Being trans is a real axis of human diversity with a durable biological underpinning. It cannot be changed through therapies and there is nothing inherently wrong with it whatsoever. It’s just different and different is ok.

With the right support/ healthcare trans people can live perfectly healthy and full lives without mental health challenges.

Edited

Stefonknee is not confused, delusional or pretending?

Tandora · 11/08/2025 10:53

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 10:52

@Tandora - you are perffectly welcome to have opinions, ones what may differ from the general view on this forum. However, whats not welcome and is really very rude and childish - is to respond to a long, well thought out and reasoned post with the words

"Thats false"

You can say it's false or wrong or whatever you like - but you have to say WHY it is false and present arguments and evidence about why it is so.

This is a good faith discussion, enter into it fully will you? Otherwise you just look childish and petulant.

I don’t accept that it is rude or childish at all.

It’s important to contradict false statements.

Tandora · 11/08/2025 10:55

ArabellaScott · 11/08/2025 10:53

Stefonknee is not confused, delusional or pretending?

Again I have no interest in discussing a random video you found on YouTube .

Im here to discuss the science of sex, gender and transness and appropriate arrangement of policy based on those scientific realities.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 10:57

Tandora · 11/08/2025 10:53

I don’t accept that it is rude or childish at all.

It’s important to contradict false statements.

Yes it is important to contradict them - but you don't do that by just saying the words "thats false" you use argument and reason and evidence to do it. You don't stick your fingers in your ears, blow a raspberry and shut your eyes.

Genuine question - are you really young? Do you have any education at all?

OP posts:
SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 10:58

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 09/08/2025 15:27

@Tandora - this took ages. Please, respond clearly and point by point to this if you possibly can.

No one can directly access another person’s inner life. A male can sincerely identify as a woman, but he cannot know he “feels like a woman,” because he has never been female and has no way to compare his inner state with female embodiment. That makes the claim an interpretation, not knowledge. Courtesy is fine; where sex matters, we should use sex.

The core point
To know what something is like from the inside you need direct experience of it, or a way to compare your experience against it. A male has never run the “female body” with its lifelong hormonal states, puberty, menstruation, pregnancy risk, menopause, and sexed socialisation. He cannot verify that his inner feeling matches “being female.” He can only label a feeling “woman” based on observation and imagination. That is empathy or stereotype, not knowledge.

Why this matters

  1. Epistemic limit: Sincere feelings are real to the person who has them, but sincerity does not convert a private feeling into confirmed knowledge about a sexed class one has never belonged to.
  2. Category mistake: Confusing identification with identity is like saying “I feel like a pilot” versus holding a pilot’s licence. One is an inner state; the other is a status grounded in material constraints. Sex is a bodily status, not a mood.
  3. Stereotype trap: If “feeling like a woman” means clothes, mannerisms, or roles, that reduces “woman” to a costume. If it is not stereotypes, then it rests on an unverifiable private feeling and cannot override sex where sex is relevant (sport categories, intimate spaces, safeguarding).

Analogies that shine a light on this argument:

  • Colour vision: A red-green colour blind person can learn every fact about “red” and copy the social cues, but they still do not see red as others do. Knowing about is not the same as knowing from within.
  • Pregnancy and the risk of it: You can empathise with pregnancy without ever knowing what it is like. Even women who never become pregnant live with the bodily possibility and the life shaped around that risk. Males do not.
  • Native language: You can be fluent in a second language, yet you do not retroactively acquire the childhood formation of a native speaker. Lived formation matters.
  • The bat thought experiment: You can study bats forever; you still do not know what echolocation feels likewithout being a bat. Likewise, a male can learn about women yet never be female.

Replying to some of your possible answers early:

  • “Women do not all feel the same.” Correct. The point is not a single female essence. It is that women share a sexed embodiment and life-course that males do not. You can lack access to another woman’s exact feelings and still know what it is like to live as female in a female body. A male has neither.
  • “Gender identity is my inner sense; you cannot police it.” You can describe your inner life as you wish. The question is what follows. A private sense can guide personal expression and courtesy. It cannot redefine a sex class or grant knowledge of experiences one has never had, especially where sexed reality has consequences.

What I am not saying

  • I am not denying anyone’s distress or humanity. Gender dysphoria is real and deserves compassion and care.
  • I am not arguing for rudeness in everyday dealings. I am drawing a boundary between courtesy for individuals and policies that must be grounded in sexed facts.

Conclusion
Feeling is personal; sex is material. A male may think he feels like a woman, but he cannot know it, because he has never been female and has no internal standard for comparison. Personal identification can be respected in social interaction. It should not replace sex where fairness, privacy, safety, and accuracy depend on it.

Please @Tandora - read this and give us a clear response about why you disagree with me, if you even do.

@Tandora please respond, point by point, clearly taking your time, or we will have to assume you don't have an answer for this or the next quote.

Engage in good faith and we all come out of this as better informed people

OP posts:
SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 10:59

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 09/08/2025 16:29

@Tandora , again please do engage with the direct points.

1) “They’re not making any claims about your experience/body; they’re telling you something about themselves.”
That concedes my core point. If the claim is only about a private inner state, then it isn’t knowledge of female experience. It’s a self-description. Calling that state “female” still borrows a public category (the sex class female) without access to its embodied reference point.

2) “To be a trans woman is to be registered male at birth but to understand/recognise/know oneself to be female.”
Two options, neither supports the idea that a male knows “what being female feels like”:

  • If “female” means the biological sex class, inner feeling cannot make that true.
  • If “female” is redefined to mean “my gender identity,” then the claim is circular: “I know I’m female because I feel female,” which tells us nothing about women’s embodied experience.

3) “It may seem impossible to you… but it’s a real feature of human diversity.”
Diversity of inner life is real. It still doesn’t answer the epistemic question: how could a male know a state equals “being female” without ever being female? Diversity doesn’t grant comparison data. How?

4) “It’s a direct experience, not a reasoned stereotype.”
Directness doesn’t settle correctness. Many inner states are vivid yet mislabelled (anxiety as excitement, phantom limb pain as limb). The labelling of a raw feeling as “female” depends on social learning and imagination. Without access to female embodiment, the label remains an interpretation, not confirmed knowledge. It's not direct, as they are not female, it can't be.

5) “It’s not about stereotypes, essence, or a claim to anything in common with you.”
If there’s no claim to commonality with females, that again concedes the point: the person isn’t claiming to know female experience, only their own private sensation. That supports my view: a male can think he feels like a woman; he cannot know what being female feels like. There is no way for them to know that private sensation is anything like the feeling of being female. They cannot know.

6) “It’s like hunger: a personal, pervasive, automatic sensation.”
The analogy fails in the key respect. Hunger has clear interoceptive signals, measurable correlates, and a known object (energy deficit). Everyone can validate it against shared physiology. “Feeling female” has no independent test and no shared interoceptive target for males: ovulation, menstruation, pregnancy risk, menopause, and sexed development are outside male embodiment. A felt state can be real as a feeling and still be wrongly named.

7) “The feelings/material distinction is false; psychological states have physiological underpinnings, so it is with gender.”
That a belief or feeling has a neural or hormonal basis makes the feeling real; it doesn’t make the content true. Pain is real when someone believes a phantom limb hurts; the limb still isn’t there. Likewise, “I am female” is a proposition about the world. Its truth isn’t secured by the sincerity or biology of the feeling.

Where we now agree (implicitly)
By saying the claim is “entirely personal,” “not about stereotypes,” and “not a claim to anything in common with you,” you accept that a male is not claiming knowledge of women’s lived, embodied experience. That is exactly my position: a male can only say what he thinks “feeling female” is, from a male perspective. He cannot verify that this matches what it is like to be female, because he has never been female and lacks any internal standard for comparison.

Bottom line

  • The inner feeling may be real and important to the person.
  • Labelling it “female” is interpretive, not actual knowledge of women’s experience.
  • Private sensations cannot redefine a public sex class or substitute for sex where sex matters.

Again @Tandora please respond, point by point, clearly taking your time, or we will have to assume you don't have an answer for this.

Engage in good faith and we all come out of this as better informed people

OP posts:
Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:00

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 10:57

Yes it is important to contradict them - but you don't do that by just saying the words "thats false" you use argument and reason and evidence to do it. You don't stick your fingers in your ears, blow a raspberry and shut your eyes.

Genuine question - are you really young? Do you have any education at all?

I’ve offered plenty of argument and reason, people continue to go off on the same completely false and deeply harmful transphobic rants.

Now you are back to insulting my person. Stick to the subject please. No i am not young and as for education? i have a PhD . How about you?

SidewaysOtter · 11/08/2025 11:01

And yet no clarification yet on the difference between trans-age, trans-racial and trans-gender.

Unless I missed it in one of the word salads above.

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:01

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 10:59

Again @Tandora please respond, point by point, clearly taking your time, or we will have to assume you don't have an answer for this.

Engage in good faith and we all come out of this as better informed people

Edited

Then you try this after engaging in a personal attack? Which is it? Are you a reasonable person or not?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:01

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:00

I’ve offered plenty of argument and reason, people continue to go off on the same completely false and deeply harmful transphobic rants.

Now you are back to insulting my person. Stick to the subject please. No i am not young and as for education? i have a PhD . How about you?

Edited

I failed my levels. Only formal education I have stops at GCSE.

It's not an insult either way.

Respond to my point by point, well reasoned arguments above, and I will learn something from you and you from me.

We learn nothing by saying "thats false" and walking away.

OP posts:
Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:01

SidewaysOtter · 11/08/2025 11:01

And yet no clarification yet on the difference between trans-age, trans-racial and trans-gender.

Unless I missed it in one of the word salads above.

There’s no such condition as trans age or trans racial.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:02

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:01

There’s no such condition as trans age or trans racial.

Why isn't there? Plenty of people claim they have it?

Do you mean it's not in the DSM or other similar systems?

OP posts:
Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:04

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:02

Why isn't there? Plenty of people claim they have it?

Do you mean it's not in the DSM or other similar systems?

Edited

“Plenty of people”.

This is not so. One or two individuals who appear on random videos on youtube or nonsense articles in the daily Mail allegedly claim to have it.

akkakk · 11/08/2025 11:04

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:02

Why isn't there? Plenty of people claim they have it?

Do you mean it's not in the DSM or other similar systems?

Edited

I would guess because it is easier to disprove than 'trans-gender' so doesn't help the spurious 'trans' arguments...

having said that it is still pretty tricky to believe that taking a tube of skin from the arm and sewing it into your crotch makes a woman into a man ;)

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:07

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:04

“Plenty of people”.

This is not so. One or two individuals who appear on random videos on youtube or nonsense articles in the daily Mail allegedly claim to have it.

I don't believe a condition is any less valid because less people have it, do you?

Still waiting for your patient, reasoned, point by point responses to the things I have said so we can both understand each other better and learn.

No rush, hope you have your big keyboard in front of you.

Just on the transracial issue alone I found half a dozen named individuals covered by the Independent, the Guardian, the BBC.....

Rachel Dolezal (Nkechi Diallo)Claimed: identifies as Black / “lives Blackness.”
Reporting: Vanity Fair, Time, The Guardian, Vogue summarised her Today/People interviews asserting “I identify as black.”

Martina BigClaimed: “now I’m a Black woman,” after tanning procedures and surgeries.
Reporting: ITV This Morning segments and write-ups repeatedly platformed her claim in on-air interviews.

Oli LondonClaimed: “transracial,” identifying as Korean (later recanted).
Reporting: Business Insider, Newsweek, CBS Austin/Yahoo carried their self-description and interviews.

“Ja Du” (Adam Wheeler)Claimed: identifies as Filipino (“transracial”).
Reporting: Allure’s news desk piece and other outlets documented the claim and interview clips.

Anthony Ekundayo LennonClaimed: described himself as mixed-heritage/“born-again African,” and joined a programme for artists of colour.
Reporting: The Guardian interview and column by Lennon; The Week and Ebony covered the controversy.

These are all real people with names, in the public, meaning there must be way way more not reported.

OP posts:
SidewaysOtter · 11/08/2025 11:12

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:01

There’s no such condition as trans age or trans racial.

Rachel Dolezal identified as black, Ollie London identified as Korean. I'm sure they're not the only two.

The individual referenced upthread identifies as a six-year old. I'm sure he's not the only one, either.

So why is their "understanding of their identity" not valid while a man's who says he's a woman is?

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:12

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:07

I don't believe a condition is any less valid because less people have it, do you?

Still waiting for your patient, reasoned, point by point responses to the things I have said so we can both understand each other better and learn.

No rush, hope you have your big keyboard in front of you.

Just on the transracial issue alone I found half a dozen named individuals covered by the Independent, the Guardian, the BBC.....

Rachel Dolezal (Nkechi Diallo)Claimed: identifies as Black / “lives Blackness.”
Reporting: Vanity Fair, Time, The Guardian, Vogue summarised her Today/People interviews asserting “I identify as black.”

Martina BigClaimed: “now I’m a Black woman,” after tanning procedures and surgeries.
Reporting: ITV This Morning segments and write-ups repeatedly platformed her claim in on-air interviews.

Oli LondonClaimed: “transracial,” identifying as Korean (later recanted).
Reporting: Business Insider, Newsweek, CBS Austin/Yahoo carried their self-description and interviews.

“Ja Du” (Adam Wheeler)Claimed: identifies as Filipino (“transracial”).
Reporting: Allure’s news desk piece and other outlets documented the claim and interview clips.

Anthony Ekundayo LennonClaimed: described himself as mixed-heritage/“born-again African,” and joined a programme for artists of colour.
Reporting: The Guardian interview and column by Lennon; The Week and Ebony covered the controversy.

These are all real people with names, in the public, meaning there must be way way more not reported.

Edited

It is "less valid" because is not a condition. Just because a random video on youtude alleges something, it doesn't make it true.

Being transgender is an actual condition.

If you type the word "transgender" into Cambridge online libraries databased you get 89,801 relevant articles, scientific papers, books, research studies.

https://idiscover.lib.cam.ac.uk/primo-explore/search?query=any,contains,Transgender&tab=defaulttab&searchscope=defaultscope&vid=44CAMPROD&lang=enUS&offset=0

If you type the word "transage" you get no relevant hits.

There's an entire section of the health service that provides services to transgender people. There are laws that recognise the existence of trans people. Not so for transage or transracial.

There's a reason for all this.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:15

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:12

It is "less valid" because is not a condition. Just because a random video on youtude alleges something, it doesn't make it true.

Being transgender is an actual condition.

If you type the word "transgender" into Cambridge online libraries databased you get 89,801 relevant articles, scientific papers, books, research studies.

https://idiscover.lib.cam.ac.uk/primo-explore/search?query=any,contains,Transgender&tab=defaulttab&searchscope=defaultscope&vid=44CAMPROD&lang=enUS&offset=0

If you type the word "transage" you get no relevant hits.

There's an entire section of the health service that provides services to transgender people. There are laws that recognise the existence of trans people. Not so for transage or transracial.

There's a reason for all this.

Edited

It is only "a condition" because it is in the DSM. Nothing else.

And so "transracial" could be a condition as well, an under investigated, under reported, dismissed condition.

Something you would probably say was true of transgenderism 30 years ago say? There were no laws to protect transgender people back then either - now there are (rightly) so there being no laws to protect transracial people is not a good argument.

I am still waiting for your point by point considered response to what I have posted. Are you doing that now so we can learn from each other?

OP posts:
Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:16

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:15

It is only "a condition" because it is in the DSM. Nothing else.

And so "transracial" could be a condition as well, an under investigated, under reported, dismissed condition.

Something you would probably say was true of transgenderism 30 years ago say? There were no laws to protect transgender people back then either - now there are (rightly) so there being no laws to protect transracial people is not a good argument.

I am still waiting for your point by point considered response to what I have posted. Are you doing that now so we can learn from each other?

Edited

No there is no evidence that being transracial is a condition.

If some appears in the future I will happily revise my position.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:18

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:16

No there is no evidence that being transracial is a condition.

If some appears in the future I will happily revise my position.

Edited

Again you ignore the substance of what I am saying in order to ignore things you have no answer for.

Transgender is a condition as it is in the DSM

Transracial - and we have evidenced proof of many many people who categorically believed they were a different race - is not a condition yet - because it is not in the DSM

Transgenderism was not always in the DSM but I assume you believe transgenderism has existed since humans have?

A condition having 1 or a billion humans with it, does not make it more or less valid, just more or less studied and understood.

Why is transgenderism real but transracialism is not?

OP posts:
BundleBoogie · 11/08/2025 11:50

Tandora · 11/08/2025 10:49

but as a compassionate society we should look after such people and give them the ability to come to terms with their natal sex

No . This is based
on the false and transphobic premise that being trans is a) wrong and b) curable.
Its exactly like historical beliefs that being gay was wrong/ a mental illness and could be cured.

This is profoundly wrong and harmful to actual living people. It’s not ok.

Edited

Well, on the grounds that it requires the whole world to pretend they see a woman in front of them when in fact it’s a man, it is wrong. No other state of being gets this level of input from society.

You appear to have forgotten about detransitioners. Where do they fit into your claim that ‘trans’ is a permanent and fixed state of being?

Its exactly like historical beliefs that being gay was wrong/ a mental illness and could be cured.

This is often argued by trans activists but we have looked at ‘trans’ over the same timeframe with the same research tools as homosexuality and not found any level of ‘innateness’, ‘understanding of oneself as the opposite sex’ or this ‘biological underpinning’ you keep mentioning, or any evidence that equals our level of understanding with homosexuality.

It’s almost like ‘trans’ is not a ‘bio psychological’ state and certainly not innate and permanent. There are many girls that declared a trans identity now being reported as having withdrawn that declaration and are not ‘trans’ - reported on this very forum!

Tandora · 11/08/2025 11:56

1) “They’re not making any claims about your experience/body; they’re telling you something about themselves.”*

That concedes my core point. If the claim is only about a private inner state, then it isn’t knowledge of female experience. It’s a self-description. Calling that state “female” still borrows a public category (the sex class female) without access to its embodied reference point.*

Correct, being trans has nothing to do with any claim to knowledge about a universal or singular "female experience"

However, being a trans woman is to have an awareness/ experience of self as being female (despite male registration at birth). This is a bio-psychological cognition analogous to hunger or sexual desire.

2) “To be a trans woman is to be registered male at birth but to understand/recognise/know oneself to be female.”*
Two options, neither supports the idea that a male knows “what being female feels like”:

  • If “female” means the biological sex class, inner feeling cannot make that true.
  • If “female” is redefined to mean “my gender identity,” then the claim is circular: “I know I’m female because I feel female,” which tells us nothing about women’s embodied experience.*

The problem is that 'being female' is not just one thing. Sex is not just one thing. Sex is a complex developmental process, with a number of components. Sex development starts with chromosomes, which drive the process of the development of internal gonads, these gonads then produce hormones, which operate systematically across the body/ brain to produce variable degrees of masculinisation and feminisation. Hormones also influences cognitive processes, including the development of cognitions in relation to sex.

We can use the word 'female' to refer to different things - but however we define it we run into complexities. We can define 'female' as registration at birth, but then you get individuals like Imane Khelif who gender critical feminists want to insist was "wrongly" registered at birth.

You can define "female" through chromosomes, but then you get into the problem that there are people, like women with CAIS, who are female in all ways that are meaningful, in society, law, medicine, but nonetheless have XY chromosomes. If you define these people as male you contradict the gender critical position that 'female' is a meaningful category in law and society. One of the things gender criticals love to claim is that 'sex' is immediately visible and obvious, I have known women with CAIS who've been in intimate relationships with men for years who have no idea that the have XY chromosomes. Some women with CAIS don't even know themselves that they have it.

So how do we define female? And how do we define it in a way that makes sense scientifically, medically and from the perspective of justice? These questions are not as obvious as the gender critical position would like to pretend they are.

3) “It may seem impossible to you… but it’s a real feature of human diversity.”*
Diversity of inner life is real. It still doesn’t answer the epistemic question: how could a male know a state equals “being female” without ever being female? Diversity doesn’t grant comparison data. How?*

As I've stated repeatedly, the psychological state of being aware/ experiencing one's own sex, has nothing to do with a broader claim about how other people experience that state. If I say I'm hungry, I make no claims to how you experience hunger, I just know that I am hungry.

4) “It’s a direct experience, not a reasoned stereotype.”*
Directness doesn’t settle correctness. Many inner states are vivid yet mislabelled (anxiety as excitement, phantom limb pain as limb). The labelling of a raw feeling as “female” depends on social learning and imagination. Without access to female embodiment, the label remains an interpretation, not confirmed knowledge. It's not direct, as they are not female, it can't be.

5) “It’s not about stereotypes, essence, or a claim to anything in common with you.”
If there’s no claim to commonality with females, that again concedes the point: the person isn’t claiming to know female experience, only their own private sensation. That supports my view: a male can think he feels like a woman; he cannot know what being female feels like. There is no way for them to know that private sensation is anything like the feeling of being female. They cannot know.*

I will answer these points together. As above, when a trans woman says they are female, they cannot possibly know what your experience of female feels like, they only know what their experience of female is.

For an analogy. this time take sexual desire, if I experience sexual attraction, I have no way of knowing whether what I feel is the same as what you feel when you experience sexual attraction, I just know what I feel.

There is no interpretation of other people's experience involved, it is a direct experience of self . The experience is a profound understanding/ awareness/ perception/ experience of self as being female, and yes this experience absolutely is embodied - a 7 year old once described it this 'I feel it in my body, my bones, and in my heart'.

You claim that there is no external reference for this, but of course there is! Take the analogy of colours. At a very early age children learn to label colours. When I see a blue object, I learn that the word for that is blue. I have no way of knowing what you see when you see the colour blue - does blue look the same to me as it does to you? Who knows? But I know there are things that look blue and the label for them is blue.

Now imagine their are green people and blue people in the world. A trans person is observed green at birth, but as they grow and learn about colours they perceive themselves to be blue. They know what blue is because they have learned the word and understand how to apply it to label all those around them. However, when they look at themselves, they don't see green, they see blue. They are not 'faking' , they are not 'lying' this is literally their direct perception of self when they look at their skin. They see blue. Not an idea of blue or a philosophical belief about what blue looks like, or a projection of what other people experience as blue. They just simply see blue. They can't help it, they can't change it, this is their direct perception/ experience.

You might say - well they aren't really seeing blue, they are colour blind/ deluded/ and have simply developed a set of false ideas/stereotypes/ projections about what blue looks like, and so they think they are seeing blue.

But this doesn't make sense, if this were true then trans people would miscolour all sorts of other people - they wouldn't really be able to identify who was blue and who wasn't - they'd always be relying on these same false stereotypes. But trans people have exactly the same ability as any other person to identify green and blue when they observe it on other people's skin. They are not colour blind, only when they look at their own skin they see blue.

Tandora · 11/08/2025 12:00

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 11:18

Again you ignore the substance of what I am saying in order to ignore things you have no answer for.

Transgender is a condition as it is in the DSM

Transracial - and we have evidenced proof of many many people who categorically believed they were a different race - is not a condition yet - because it is not in the DSM

Transgenderism was not always in the DSM but I assume you believe transgenderism has existed since humans have?

A condition having 1 or a billion humans with it, does not make it more or less valid, just more or less studied and understood.

Why is transgenderism real but transracialism is not?

Edited

You are being perfectly ridiculous.

Being transgender is a condition.
If you type the word "transgender" into Cambridge online libraries database you get 89,801 relevant articles, scientific papers, books, research studies.

There's an entire section of the health service that provides services to transgender people. There are laws that recognise the existence of trans people.

There is no evidence of any type of condition called "transracial" or "transage". A few people allegedly claiming something on youtube does not constitute reliable evidence of anything.

borntobequiet · 11/08/2025 12:08

It would be perfectly reasonable for someone of mixed race heritage to identify as black or white, according to preference/cultural pressure, though some people might disagree with their particular claim on political or ideological grounds. It would be unreasonable of me, a generally fit and healthy seventy-something, to claim to be actually younger than I am, even though I might appear so, because the date of one’s birth is a recorded fact (I might successfully pretend to be younger, though). It is unreasonable for someone to claim to be of the opposite sex than that correctly observed at birth, and a fact since conception, because, like one’s birth date (if correctly recorded), it is an actual fact: biological sex is real, binary and immutable. They can, however, claim to be any gender they choose, gender being a social construct.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 11/08/2025 12:09

Tandora · 11/08/2025 12:00

You are being perfectly ridiculous.

Being transgender is a condition.
If you type the word "transgender" into Cambridge online libraries database you get 89,801 relevant articles, scientific papers, books, research studies.

There's an entire section of the health service that provides services to transgender people. There are laws that recognise the existence of trans people.

There is no evidence of any type of condition called "transracial" or "transage". A few people allegedly claiming something on youtube does not constitute reliable evidence of anything.

Edited

Just saying the same thing twice, is not a good argument back to me. However to expand what I was saying earlier

If transgenderism is real, the same reasoning can support transracialism and trans-age

Core principle: identity over birth assignment

  • Transgenderism says your inner gender identity can outweigh your birth-assigned sex, and society should recognise it.
  • Transracial and trans-age claims follow the same structure: a persistent self-identity taking precedence over the category assigned at birth.
  • If subjective identity and lived experience are decisive, the logic applies equally unless a principled difference is shown.

Shared socio–biological mix

  • Sex = biology + social gender roles.
  • Race = ancestry + social constructs.
  • Age = chronology + cultural categories.
  • If the social element allows reclassification for gender, the same reasoning can apply to race and age.

On “being ridiculous” and ‘not a condition’

  • Today, there are thousands of papers on transgenderism, NHS services, and legal protections — but that’s because decades of activism and research transformed something once dismissed as fringe into a recognised category.
  • Thirty years ago, gender dysphoria was under-researched, ignored, and widely called “not real.” Lack of evidence then didn’t prove it was fake; it proved society hadn’t looked seriously yet.
  • Saying “there’s no condition called transracial or trans-age” only shows these identities are under-investigated, under-reported, and stigmatised, exactly the position transgender identities were in before recognition.
  • The absence of NHS clinics or legal protection isn’t proof of non-existence; it’s proof of current social and institutional priorities.

Transracialism could be a condition

  • A persistent identification with another race could have psychological or neurological roots, just as some people believe gender dysphoria does.
  • Its rarity or stigma may explain the lack of data, people are less likely to speak out if it brings ridicule or social penalty. Just like being trans used to be.

Consistency of lived experience

  • “Only I know my true identity” is accepted for gender; a transracial or trans-age claimant can say the same about race or age.
  • If lived experience is decisive in one case, rejecting it in others requires clear evidence, not just current social norms.

Avoiding arbitrary boundaries

  • If we accept gender identity because it is socially constructed, deeply felt, and misalignment causes harm, race and age meet the same criteria.
  • To reject them, we need a principled, non-arbitrary distinction, not an appeal to popularity, law, or present-day science.

To sum all of this up -
Current recognition of transgenderism is the result of decades of change, not proof it was always accepted as real. If the standard is that self-identity can override birth assignment when deeply felt and lived, then, absent a clear difference, the same reasoning can extend to race and age.

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