Page 8 | AIBU to think that 'patriarchy chicken' isn't the whole story?

AliceMaforethought · 2025-08-07T12:58:17+00:00

Hear me out, as I reckon that this will be an unpopular opinion, but I am keen to know if my experience is just me or if others experience the same. I hear a lot on this site about 'patriarchy chicken': simply put, the admirable notion that women deserve to take up space and not have to stand aside for men. Last week, I was in London, (I'm from a smaller UK city) I was STAGGERED by the utter lack of spatial awareness of women. I am a woman, for context: youngish (I'm 42 but look a lot younger) I found women knocked into me constantly and let their kids blunder into me and other people. I didn't have a problem with men at all. The other thing that I did notice was that all these women were white, and were all ages from young to late middle age (old women weren't an issue at all) I am mixed race. Before anyone thinks that I was the problem and was just out of my depth in London, that isn't the case. I am a trained dancer, I have a lot of spatial awareness, and I am used to London even though I haven't lived there for a while. I am starting to wonder if I need to play 'white supremacy chicken'!

Juststop2025 · 08/08/2025 11:48

zingally · 08/08/2025 10:10

Huh?

I don't live in London, but am there multiple times a year. I can honestly say I've never experienced what you've described.

I'd also never heard of "patriarchy chicken", but would think of myself as pretty internet-savvy, and down with whatever the latest topic is.

It sounds like you've just encountered a load of knobs. London is absolutely packed to the rafters this time of year, and over-crowded. People are going to get a bit jostled sometimes, especially if (and it sounds like you are) you're in the busiest tourist areas.

Yep, patriarchy chicken is a new one on me too.

Shayisgreat · 08/08/2025 11:49

MageQueen · 08/08/2025 11:39

As a white middle aged woman myself,I honestly don't understand why anyone is questioning you on this. Surely we all understand that we all have different levels and types of privilege that can spill over into this sort of unconcious behaviour? most of the men who always expect ME to move when walking down a path are probablh perfectly nice men who truly believe they're supporting equality at home and in the workplace etc. That's what makes these sort of things so insidious - they're not obvious and often they're not aware of it in the first place.

I find myself consciously checking if I'm doing this. Sometimes I worry I go too far the other way with white women's guilt, but I figure that really, treating people politely and nicely isn't over compensating, it's normal life.

As a slight side note, I live opposite a very large high school, co ed and quite diverse. It is the white teenage girls who are the MOST annoying on shared paths and inconsiderate and entitled. It's weird.

You'd think people would have this understanding but apparently not!

I agree with you.

Juststop2025 · 08/08/2025 11:50

zingally · 08/08/2025 11:07

And there we have it. 😂

No comment to make on my first post, but as soon as people start to be like, "hmm... overthinking", the MCS kicks in within 2 minutes (constantly refreshing the page...? Go touch grass) and the insults start to fly.

Anyway, I'll leave you to your endless refreshing.

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Yep, main character syndrome sums her up rather well :)

Juststop2025 · 08/08/2025 11:52

Yabberwok · 08/08/2025 09:07

There is no country on earth that hasn't been involved in slavery.

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Correct. 100 percent definitely and inarguably correct.

TheignT · 08/08/2025 12:08

Juststop2025 · 08/08/2025 11:52

Correct. 100 percent definitely and inarguably correct.

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Well Google says it was never legal in Australia. Do you have any information on slavery in Australia. Of course the way people of colour were treated was shameful, nothing to be proud of.

Alicealig · 08/08/2025 19:15

TheignT · 08/08/2025 11:41

Britain did not singlehandedly end slavery, as I pointed out Denmark outlawed it before Britain. Neither Britain nor Denmark had a right to crow about it as they had benefitted from it in the first place.

You are also ignoring the black people who fought against slavery but I suppose they don't count. Maybe read up about slave rebellions in Jamaica, Barbados and Haiti. The Haitian rebellions was very successful and resulted in it becoming a free black republic, not Britain but black slaves achieved that. The British response to the Jamaican rebellion is certainly nothing to be proud of.

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I really don't mean to sound condescending but I don't think you've schooled up properly with your history. To assume Britain was built on slavery is just patently wrong whichever way you look at it. The fact a few rich landowners abroad owned slaves contributed such a small amount to the overall GDP of the country it barely made a mark and if you look into the history of abolition you'll find that Britain paid far more in money and treasure than they ever earned from the slave trade to enforce the abolition on the high seas too, far more than any other country.

Back in those times slavery was the norm, so fighting to abolish it was fraught with a huge kickback.

Slavery is still rife in many African countries today. Who wouldn't be proud that our country view that as a moral sin.

The slave trade was an awful business that was perpetrated by black and white people. This isn't a white vs black issue. Both committed atrocities. Who do you think kidnapped and sold their own people to the slavers waiting on the beaches? I think you give white people more credit than they're due assuming they were brave enough men to go away from the shore into a country of people who were seen at that time as savages.

We need to stop thinking of black people as as victims because of a trade that ended hundreds of years ago.

No one views the Jews as victims and what happened to them was arguably far worse being slaughtered by a crazed head of a country who wanted to see them wiped out.... And that was all less than 100 years ago!!

TheignT · 08/08/2025 19:43

First of all where did I say Britain was built on slavery?

My point, which you clearly missed, was the belief some on here have that Britain ended slavery is false. It ended it in Britain and British colonies but other countries ended it earlier and some countries carried on with it after Britain. Slavery definitely carried on.

No praise for stopping something you shouldn't have done in the first place. If your husband beats you up every Friday when he's had a skinful do you think he's some sort of hero because he stops?

People most certainly view Jews as victims. Some holocaust survivors are still with us, do you honestly dismiss their suffering? Maybe have a look at transgenerstional trauma which still is an issue for some.

Don't worry about being condescending, you've nothing to be condescending about.
.

Original poster

AliceMaforethought · 08/08/2025 19:46

Alicealig · 08/08/2025 19:15

I really don't mean to sound condescending but I don't think you've schooled up properly with your history. To assume Britain was built on slavery is just patently wrong whichever way you look at it. The fact a few rich landowners abroad owned slaves contributed such a small amount to the overall GDP of the country it barely made a mark and if you look into the history of abolition you'll find that Britain paid far more in money and treasure than they ever earned from the slave trade to enforce the abolition on the high seas too, far more than any other country.

Back in those times slavery was the norm, so fighting to abolish it was fraught with a huge kickback.

Slavery is still rife in many African countries today. Who wouldn't be proud that our country view that as a moral sin.

The slave trade was an awful business that was perpetrated by black and white people. This isn't a white vs black issue. Both committed atrocities. Who do you think kidnapped and sold their own people to the slavers waiting on the beaches? I think you give white people more credit than they're due assuming they were brave enough men to go away from the shore into a country of people who were seen at that time as savages.

We need to stop thinking of black people as as victims because of a trade that ended hundreds of years ago.

No one views the Jews as victims and what happened to them was arguably far worse being slaughtered by a crazed head of a country who wanted to see them wiped out.... And that was all less than 100 years ago!!

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Good lord you sound ignorant. Jeez.

OP posts:

FrangipaniBlue · 08/08/2025 21:48

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:31

You're right. What I find especially galling, though, is the way that these same women will moan all day long about men. They understand societal oppression just fine when they are on the receiving end. I bet a lot of them would claim that misandry doesn't exist, either.

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I bet they don’t because these are the same women who will shout NAMALT!

I’m 100% with you op but it’s the hierarchy innit….

men
white-women
non-white women

Smilesinthesunshine · 08/08/2025 23:39

AliceMaforethought · 08/08/2025 19:46

Good lord you sound ignorant. Jeez.

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Willful ignorance is difficult to overcome. Victimhood is the height of fashion (ultra competitive).
Thank you @Alicealig for such a well informed and intelligent post.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 08/08/2025 23:59

gannett · 07/08/2025 14:23

I don't use Karen either but I'm more than OK with the original meaning of the term. It's hilarious that MN gets in a froth on it because I've never seen that original meaning encapsulated any better than the weekly "shall I REPORT these WORKMEN for BREATHING" threads on here.

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Ha ha - love this post

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 09/08/2025 00:17

Juststop2025 · 08/08/2025 08:39

Yep. All cultures, ethnicities and countries are quite capable of racism and yep of course white people can experience racism, and just like all other ethnicities and cultures, they do.

And yep, the British did an amazing job of leading the way to stop the slave trade, at great financial cost to the UK taxpayers. Proud indeed to have that as part of my heritage.

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Yes - it was terribly expensive, wasn't it, paying compensation to all those slave owners so they wouldn't be out of pocket.

ScorchingEgg · 09/08/2025 00:20

I genuinely opened this thread thinking ‘patriarchy chicken’ was some sort of poultry based dish one would whip up to bring to a ‘bring your own dish’ dinner held by feminists.

And I’m really disappointed.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 09/08/2025 00:33

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GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 09/08/2025 00:52

FrangipaniBlue · 08/08/2025 21:48

I bet they don’t because these are the same women who will shout NAMALT!

I’m 100% with you op but it’s the hierarchy innit….

men
white-women
non-white women

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I’m not trying to be difficult - it’s a genuine question- but would you divide the men into white men and non-white men too?

Addressing the OP @AliceMaforethought - I’m very interested in your post and will take it on board.

I have a system in my head for how I think it should go in situations where people could collide-

the person who would come off better in the case of a collision should step aside - so non disabled step aside for disabled, young adults for older, men for women etc
if the “collision damage” factor is equal, the person with the greater privilege in society should step aside.

So the above would mean that a white woman stepped aside for a black woman (all else being equal) but held her line again all men unless disabled or elderly.

It does involve quite a quick mental calculation though! You can’t possibly make a completely accurate assessment of privilege - I wouldn’t be able to factor in someone’s sexuality in all cases - but it’s just meant to be a rough guide!

user1471516498 · 09/08/2025 00:57

I have found similar in London, but I am white. However, given that the people in question were not looking where they were going, I could have been any race for all they knew.

Beautifulhaiku · 09/08/2025 01:06

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In a society where white people are the majority and have historically held all the power, 100% yes. Is this all new to you?

Beautifulhaiku · 09/08/2025 01:11

TheignT · 08/08/2025 19:43

First of all where did I say Britain was built on slavery?

My point, which you clearly missed, was the belief some on here have that Britain ended slavery is false. It ended it in Britain and British colonies but other countries ended it earlier and some countries carried on with it after Britain. Slavery definitely carried on.

No praise for stopping something you shouldn't have done in the first place. If your husband beats you up every Friday when he's had a skinful do you think he's some sort of hero because he stops?

People most certainly view Jews as victims. Some holocaust survivors are still with us, do you honestly dismiss their suffering? Maybe have a look at transgenerstional trauma which still is an issue for some.

Don't worry about being condescending, you've nothing to be condescending about.
.

‘The slave trade isn’t a black vs white issue’? What kind of mad mental gymnastics is this?

Devilsmommy · 09/08/2025 01:14

Beautifulhaiku · 09/08/2025 01:06

In a society where white people are the majority and have historically held all the power, 100% yes. Is this all new to you?

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😒🙄 that's all I've got to say

Ablushingcrow · 09/08/2025 01:21

AliceMaforethought · 07/08/2025 14:19

Racism against whites doesn't exist.

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Racism against blacks doesn't exist.

Juststop2025 · 09/08/2025 02:49

Alicealig · 08/08/2025 19:15

I really don't mean to sound condescending but I don't think you've schooled up properly with your history. To assume Britain was built on slavery is just patently wrong whichever way you look at it. The fact a few rich landowners abroad owned slaves contributed such a small amount to the overall GDP of the country it barely made a mark and if you look into the history of abolition you'll find that Britain paid far more in money and treasure than they ever earned from the slave trade to enforce the abolition on the high seas too, far more than any other country.

Back in those times slavery was the norm, so fighting to abolish it was fraught with a huge kickback.

Slavery is still rife in many African countries today. Who wouldn't be proud that our country view that as a moral sin.

The slave trade was an awful business that was perpetrated by black and white people. This isn't a white vs black issue. Both committed atrocities. Who do you think kidnapped and sold their own people to the slavers waiting on the beaches? I think you give white people more credit than they're due assuming they were brave enough men to go away from the shore into a country of people who were seen at that time as savages.

We need to stop thinking of black people as as victims because of a trade that ended hundreds of years ago.

No one views the Jews as victims and what happened to them was arguably far worse being slaughtered by a crazed head of a country who wanted to see them wiped out.... And that was all less than 100 years ago!!

Show quote history

All correct, and am very proud that Great Britain put so much money and effort into stopping the slave trade. Sadly, the slave trade is continued today by other countries, but thankfully not in the UK, Europe, America or Australia.

Sadly, Nigeria and India amongst other countries continue the slave trade.

Juststop2025 · 09/08/2025 02:57

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Propogating eternal victimhood?! My God, what a foul anti semitic and hate filled statement because decent people still feel compassion for the deaths and torture of millions of Jews for the sole reason that they were Jewish.

Vile.

EmeraldShamrock000 · 09/08/2025 03:01

Those women have a huge sense of entitlement. I'd imagine living and working in London would encourage the ladies to become more brash, especially if living well, money, status, busy city life = Dragon lady getting free A to B.

Next time, bring a cane, hit their ankles as they pass.

I don't think I'd manage London life.

clamshell24 · 09/08/2025 03:26

I haven't noticed it but can believe it. There's taking up space, and there's being invisible. Female couple walking together? Especially middle aged? Everyone walks right through you.

MidnightScroller · 09/08/2025 03:53

I’d imagine it’s more that in a busy crowded area all women are more likely to bump into other women than risk brushing up against a man who’d respond god only knows how.