AIBU to think that 'patriarchy chicken' isn't the whole story?

[AliceMaforethought]

Hear me out, as I reckon that this will be an unpopular opinion, but I am keen to know if my experience is just me or if others experience the same.

I hear a lot on this site about 'patriarchy chicken': simply put, the admirable notion that women deserve to take up space and not have to stand aside for men. Last week, I was in London, (I'm from a smaller UK city) I was STAGGERED by the utter lack of spatial awareness of women. I am a woman, for context: youngish (I'm 42 but look a lot younger) I found women knocked into me constantly and let their kids blunder into me and other people. I didn't have a problem with men at all. The other thing that I did notice was that all these women were white, and were all ages from young to late middle age (old women weren't an issue at all) I am mixed race. Before anyone thinks that I was the problem and was just out of my depth in London, that isn't the case. I am a trained dancer, I have a lot of spatial awareness, and I am used to London even though I haven't lived there for a while. I am starting to wonder if I need to play 'white supremacy chicken'!

Perhaps all the women who play 'patriarchy chicken' are just unlucky. After all there are women everywhere, so men can't be wandering into them in some kind of power play, right?

yes, which is why I said "I think some people are just rude, but most are not. I think that's true of men and women..."

This reminds me of something that happened during the Covid epidemic.

It was when the social distancing rules had been recently implemented and people were taking this very seriously. When going for walks, people would sometimes go onto the road to avoid passing another person too closely on the pavement.

One day, when I went for a walk, I saw a man coming towards me on the same pavement I was walking on. The pavement was very narrow so when the man was close enough, I moved on to the road to pass him and give him space. I smiled at him but he gave a really upset, puzzled expression. It was weird. Then after I passed him, I realised he may have thought I was being racist. He was black and I am white. Did he interpret this in the wrong way?

I was giving all people space but it was only him who gave me this offended look.

At least that is consistent.

He could have done, although in that context you did absolutely nothing wrong.

You should have tried to dance your way onto a bus in South London. Would have evened your race v space (space race?) tally chart out a little.

You'd argue with your own toe nails OP. Enjoy.

I was in London few weeks ago - I am white - but only got walked into once by a middle aged Asain man who was distracted by small child in a busy market and who immediately apologised - well we are Bristish so we both did automatcially.

In my city it can be all age groups that occaionally bump but it's really not that common.

It was common in a northen city and midland town when I was by myself with young kids - though it was equally common to find helpful people.

Teenagers and people in 20 least likely to be awkward on paths - middle age and upwards especially in the midlands town they could be deliberately awkward or not see you and send you or young child flying often with comments about kids being everywhere or people like me shouldn't be allowed kids - I was married 30 year old well educated professional so assume they were making unpleasant assumptions there.

Those years used to go to other locations and be struck how polite people were in comparison - think it was sort of background noise to me at that point and noticable more by it's abscence - so I can see this activity could vary based on location and who you are.

Translation: I don't have an answer for you, so I'll resort to an ad hominem. Got it.

I don’t play patriarchy chicken, I get out the way bc I don’t want to be shoulder-barged. I am white and 50 and accept every word of your OP. We all make instant judgments based on appearance and it’s hard to see another’s POV if it makes us feel defensive.

Men are the main culprit here and elderly women. If I’m stood looking at something in a shop (not for long!) and they want to look at it, they’ll just walk straight at me in a way that makes me jump out the way. I started standing my ground and continuing to browse, resulting in some men having to stop about a millimetre from me then do a 180 when they realised I wasn’t moving. The elderly ladies (70+) walk incredibly slowly down the middle of the pavement even when it’s easily wide enough for 2 people.

Hilarious but total BS as you well know. 😏

No, I don't 'well know'. It is 'total BS' to think it does exist IMO.

Why does 'So I wouldn't have experienced anything due to that though' follow being white?

You must not have been on MN very long if you don't think you'd get similar comments on a sexism thread! You'd also be told because women have sons that it's their boys they really worry about... So much sexism out there directed at their little boys. 🤮

I'm white so I can't comment on racist "bumping" my only thoughts on that would be that women tend to fear men and racists tend to fear poc, so this is one of those occasions where it might not be the most obvious swap of sexism for racism. For example I've read black men saying white women will cross the street, leave lifts etc. but maybe that's specific to black men. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, it's not my place and if you feel that you're seeing it more, I'm sure you are. It could also be that white entitlement means we're a more generally "bumpy" group.

ETA and also that many feminist "take up space" forums are heavily white means that it's infiltrated more with white women.

I do think young people are more "bumpy" than older people, beyond the usual side of teens being reasonably self absorbed, most of them are walking on their phones now, and also have variable social skills since COVID.

I tend to find it’s people glued to their phones that are the issue, regardless of sex / race / age

Today is the first time that I have ever heard of this ridiculous term. It’s pathetic.
Living in an inner city area where white people are the minority naturally my experience is very different from yours.
Well done for looking for non-existent problems though.

White women, if you are reading this, sit with it.

Happy to.

And if people think they aren't racist, without any work, I wonder why they think that. I'm white, raised in London. I had racist (benignly but still) parents, racist teachers (not so benign in one case), racist books, maps, resources, history. Racist people around me. If I soaked in that soup, and did no work at all, how on earth would I come out of it without a little sticking to me?

I was talking to my colleague about it yesterday. We're both in a weird stage.

You realise there's work, you do some work, you realise there's a lot more work, you do that. Then the interesting stage. You get (sometimes grudging) praise for having done some work. You enjoy the praise and feel great and like you deserve to be included in the conversation. And the work's done. Shit, that's properly dickish. More work. And trying to avoid being the kind of white person who is like one of those brocialist men wearing a 'this is what a feminist looks like' t-shirts. We're at that stage

TL:DR OP you've noticed racism chicken. I'll sit with it.

Thank you. Genuinely, thank you very much. That is the sort of answer I was hoping for.

To people who refer to mothers letting their children take up space on the path, can you clarify what you mean by that? If a group of four people are coming past me, do they have less right if two of those people are children they've given birth to? Should they be ushering their small children out of my way? Because I've always felt it was significantly easier and safer for me to move and I can't see why this children have less right to a pavement than a group of four adults. I move for dogs too, because I'm not an asshole and I don't want someone shifting their dog into the road because I'm a lazy git

There’s often threads on MN about people who are overweight and asking can I wear X question.
Most posters say they never ever judge anyone on what they look like and wouldn’t even notice an 18 stone woman in a tiny crop top. 😏
I assume therefore that most people walk around not looking at other people, which appears to be confirmed by your post.

Out of interest, what would you call black people deliberately walking into white people because of their skin colour? Or an Asian business deliberately declining to employ white people because of their skin colour? Or a white person in a majority Arabic country receiving race-themed abuse as they walk down the street because of their skin colour?

I don’t think racism against white people is really comparable unless South Africa.

And that’s not because white people are inherently awful, it’s because there doesn’t tend to be white populations in many of the countries from which people that come to the UK experience racism. You don’t have large white groups living in Pakistan, or Iran, or Northern/Sub Saharan Africa, or the Caribbean, to experience racism.

I know that there is xenophobia on an epic scale within these countries between tribal/religious groups etc so I suspect it’s not just the remit of white people.

This is an awful thread to read. So much ignorance!
I'm a white woman with a mixed race teenage daughter. I know exactly what you're talking about.

I have never heard of patriarchy chicken and not entirely sure I am clear on what it means here.
You say people's or women's spatial awareness is bad but also seem to be saying its being done on purpose so I'm not sure what your saying about white chicken either.

Either way as a white woman I don't really think I've experienced many people bumping into me. I do think lots of people are incredibly impatient and rude I see it all the time where my visibly disabled son gets tutted at for being in people's walking line as he's a child and seemingly should despite his disability move out of the path of any busy, important grown up.

I think most people only notice stuff that affects them to be honest. But I do wonder if it is connected to race or sex or more just that some people are very selfish.