To think this is closer to a normal childhood than to extreme abuse?

[Greensl100]

I know you can’t and shouldn’t try to measure things like this but I am told that this sort of stuff constitutes extreme abuse and I just don’t think it does. I actually think it is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s.

Examples…

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

pulling hair and smacking

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest

these are some examples and of course I know none of them are brilliant parenting but I don’t think it equals extreme abuse?

I can categorically state that I didn't experience any of the things on that list.

Depends, more context needed but no I wouldn’t say that’s extreme abuse assuming each of these things wasn’t happening regularly. To me the worst/most hurtful one is actually the last one but hard to say without more context. I’ve definitely experienced more than one of those on your list on the odd occasion (80s baby) and I did and still do have a very happy and healthy relationship with my parents. I wouldn’t smack my kids for example but that said it really doesn’t bother me at all that our parents occasionally smacked us growing up and I certainly don’t think it has in any way negatively impacted my life. That said if you’re in therapy for all this then obviously there is more to it and/or this was a pattern of behaviour from your parents so yes, it probably was abusive but not extreme I would say.

The only one I've experienced was being left alone at 15, and that was by my own choice - they went somewhere and would have much preferred that I went too, but I didn't want to, and they respected my choice - a very different scenario.

As @Dunnocantthinkofone says, each one of those things individually might not be so bad, but together and as only "some examples" from a long list, yes, that paints am overall picture which is really pretty bad.

Also... You don't have to think of yourself as a "victim of extreme abuse". You don't have to take on or accept anyone else's labels if you don't want to. How you think about yourself (and indeed, how you think about your parents) is up to you. You can choose your own narrative now, choose your own meanings, take the ones which are most helpful and healing for you.

It is a fact that these things happened, but you don't need to identify as a victim if that isn't a thing that is helpful to you.
You could (for example) take the approach that "these things happened, and it wasn't ok that they happened, but I've survived/grown/formed my own personality/successes despite these things".

You could be angry, sad, compassionate, disgusted, accepting, or any other emotion or range of emotions that serve you better.
If your therapist insists on there only being one possible narrative, and tries to make you accept her narrative and value judgements rather than encouraging you to work things through and come to your own conclusions, then you might want to consider finding a different therapist who will support your processing and working through what happened in the way that works best for you, rather than imposing her views.

Wishing you all the best for the future.

It is hardly extreme abuse.

It isn't good, or normal parenting, and there are certainly elements of emotional abuse, but to call it extreme abuse is a bit ridiculous. She must have grown up in cotton wool and never met anyone who was actually severely abused.

I don't know, Op, it isn't comparing like with like because abuse is hidden, and can even chaange over time, or disappear for a while.The calm before a storm.I used to get the belt, bamboo canes, punched and hit when I was under the bedspread, hit across the face and pinned to a wall by the throat.I don't remember loads of my childhood, but I know I used a dummy till I was seven and a potty to the same age (probably to keep us out of our father's way).Also awful depersonalising names I think for me the psychological terror was worse and not being able to tell anyone because school had witnessed the physical stuff and not done a thing, and I thought if i told I would be killed.I'm still not able t face trauma therapy, I think you are really brave to have startted.

you're resisting the concept bc its very painful to consciously realize what your poor subconscious has spent decades pretending is normal.

None of it is normal and yes it is extreme abuse esp when you add it all up. You should continue therapy and expect it to get a little worse as you work through the trauma you experienced. Then it will get better, your subconscious can finally relax as you face your past and you can learn coping skills to deal with it today.

My mother was abusive (very abusive/neglectful imo) during my adolescence but as a child she was loving and present. It's hard to reconcile the same person acting so differently but I know now she had reasons beyond me that caused her to mistreat me. I never forgave her and was NC most of my adult life until she died.

I grew up in the 90s/00s, and no, never experienced anything on the list.

I was probably smacked a few times, nothing I can remember though. It was quite a common threat for children at the time. I would have imagined a single smack over clothing with an open hand, if that adds context.

My children were born in the 80's, so largely 90's childhoods.
I don;t think any of the things you mention fall remotely within the bounds of normal. I can't imagine doing any of those things to my children, and I'm fairly sure none of their friends parents would have done any of those things (with a posible exception of smacking, I knew a few parents in the 80/90s who still thought this was OK.
But pulling hair? Why on earth would anyone think that was OK?
Calling names - awful?
trashing a bedroom - insane and out of control.
And being round pets when allergic, absolutely not, my DD has asthma, triggered by cats amongst other things, I would never have contemplated getting a cat.

I grew up in the 60s/70s, my parents were far from perfect but they would not have done most of those things (exception being the occasional smack and letting us go alone to things, and be left alone far too young, but that wasn't considered all that odd then, and we did survive I guess, although we do look back and shudder a bit)

your parents sound pretty unpleasant, normal is wanting the best for your children building their self estemm and confidence, and keeping them safe from physical and mental harm, not physically attacking them, and calling them nasty names.

I’m so sorry xx

Yes. If my parents had pulled my hair, trashed my room, left me alone for a week, forced me to endure something I was allergic to and denied me access to basic provisions I'd feel I'd been on the receiving end of fairly extreme abuse.

@Greensl100
I thought everyone would have experienced at least one thing on this list

I have experienced quite a few (with bonus extras ) and I don't consider them 'extreme' abuse either. My DPs and other similarly minded of that era wouldn't have considered them abusive at all, whereas some probably would, even then. I think it is difficult to judge our parents from our adult perspective in a very different time. All I think we can do is to realise they were less than ideal, vow never to raise our DCs in such a way and try to move on. Good luck with your journey 💐

p.s., my DPs would sometimes say how their DPs had raised them and it made mine look like gentle parenting devotees, so I guess they did try to improve in their own way.

Of course it is extreme abuse. Those parents were physically and emotionally abusive. Why on earth do you think that it isn't?

I think that's a bit of an odd assumption - presumably, a therapist is in the business of meeting people with awful childhoods.

I'm not a therapist myself so I don't know, but I assume there is some therapeutic reason to frame OP's memories using the phrase "extreme abuse".

I do think it's helpful to put context to our experiences since we do tend to assume whatever we experience in life is the "norm" and in reality it's not always the case.

Such a bewildering time for you, OP. Lens-shifting can be very disconcerting, especially when unexpected.

I sought therapy for something quite unrelated in my 20s and my therapist picked up on something I mentioned in passing about my childhood; something I'd not reflected much on, or -if anything- worn as a bit of a badge of honour. The therapist invited me to share more of my childhood and unpacked dynamics and family systems which they felt were very neglectful. It really unsettled me at the time, and 30 years later, I often think about it. I've found it hard to reconcile that the attitudes, beliefs, values underpinning my parents' actions, which had felt entirely normal to me in the context of the country and culture in which I grew up, very clearly met the 'criteria' for neglect when viewed through the lens of another person.
Be kind to yourself as you sit with this new perspective, OP.

Not to miss the point of the thread but I’m interested in understanding what is being achieved by defining the level of abuse.

Does your therapist want you to understand that your parents’ behaviour has affected your world view? Or are you locking horns over the definition of extreme abuse?
I think the specific words are less important than the intended outcome.

Your therapist surely has views on your upbringing but insisting on this specific phrase seems like a distraction. Therapy isn’t about convincing you to agree to the therapist’s views.

Eta: This is a challenging experience which is meant to improve your life over time and it’s not easy. Good luck to you in therapy. I had a complicated upbringing too. Therapy should help you contextualise your experience.

I had a horrible mother who beat the living shit out of us on a semi-regular basis, neglected us, controlled us and my dad by rages and silences - but even she never pulled my hair or trashed my room!

My parents were both hugely damaged by growing up during the war, my mother especially as her own family was very dysfunctional.

In the 90s my sister was bringing up her children, and she would never have done any of this.

I had a childhood just like this. Like you, I don’t consider it extreme, but i definitely battle with feelings of low self worth as an adult. Overall, I just felt like my mum didn’t want me and that I was an unwelcome chore in her life. It’s so unfair that some of us don’t get what we need. Sending love ❤️

Op I agree it’s not “extreme” abuse - yes it could be abusive for sure but if that is extreme abuse then how do we classify abuse that’s a lot more physical, sexual, extreme abuse in the type of ways we would normally think of? It’s okay to understand that this is wrong, yes could be definitely classed as abusive, and with these type of childhoods we would understand that we don’t want this type of thing for our kids,
as parents we would not behave like this at all - cut contact with your family if that’s right for you, but you also don’t have to label it in a way you don’t feel comfortable.

I work with children in a safeguarding role.

I'm sorry to say that the things you describe absolutely do fall under the category of Physical Abuse and Emotional Abuse. These are not typical childhood experiences, and would not have been typical in the 90's either.

I think that the use of the word "extreme" is really unhelpful when it comes to conversations about childhood abuse and neglect though. I can see why you would take issue with your therapist's use of that word. Your childhood experiences may be at the "extreme" end of the scale in terms of what she is accustomed to hearing from clients, but it's entirely subjective. Whilst I have personally dealt with many cases of abuse that would be characterised as signficantly more serious in terms of the level of risk and harm done to children, that doesn't mean that what happened to you wasn't serious.

Recognising that your childhood was abusive does not necessarily mean you have to see yourself as a victim of abuse, if that doesn't feel helpful. You can choose to see yourself as someone who experienced trauma and adversity and survived. But not wsnting to see yourself as a victim doesn't mean you can't give yourself permission to feel sad or angry for that little girl who had her room trashed and her hair pulled. She deserved better.

It is very common for children living in an abusive environment to grow up believing that their experience is 'normal', or "not that bad" and to discover that this is perhaps not the case can be upsetting and de-stabilising. I think it's important to explore this with your therapist going forward and to be honest with them about how their choice of words was particularly triggering for you.

Of course there is worse abuse. Some children have been killed or seriously injured by their parents. Some people have been sexually abused by their parents. However, that doesn't mean that what happened to you wasn't extreme abuse. What they have done is/was illegal. I was shocked at your list.

90s child here and none of this was normal or happening to myself or anyone I knew. It does sound extremely abusive and I'm sorry you went through this

I think what's I guess therapeutically important is not the therapists words, but the very strong reaction the OP has had to that choice of words.

I'm not any sort of pro / psych

But it seems to me like the OP has written a sort of protective narrative around it all and the therapist might be testing the edges of that? IDK?

Inner city 80s/90s council estate upbringing with a 'flawed' and neglectful mum and step dad. Biological dad in prison (for context).

It all sounds standard to me. Some of my friends had it far worse - coming to school with broken arms, black eyes etc etc. A few didn't make it to their twenties. I don't mean they were murdered, just such that their upbringing sent them down the wrong path and/or trashed their MH. Many parents were alcoholics.

When I chat about it to my partner, who is a similar age but grew up in a middle class area with teacher parents, he finds it all quite shocking.

Have you ever watched the This is England TV series, OP? Not the movie but the follow on TV shows. Reasonated with me so much.

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

pulling hair and smacking

These all happened in my childhood, along side many other things, also in the 90’s and I consider myself to have had an abusive upbringing. Not extreme abuse, no. Some of my friends definitely had it worse (I grew up on a council estate below the poverty line if that helps). But abuse is abuse. There is no justifying it and it’s not a competition a to who had it worse. I find that rather counter productive from your therapist to be honest.

I'd try not to get too hung up on the term. Possibly what's happening is that you're not seeing your experience as extreme, therapist says you have been a victim of extreme abuse, and you are in turn then starting to label yourself or even compare your experience to what you view as extreme abuse and it's getting confused. And putting it in those terms is forcing you into acceptance which perhaps you're not ready for

I guess your therapist has spotted that you see this treatment as normal (as you clearly do by your post) and really you need to understand that it is not normal, it is not right and it was not deserved. Everything is a spectrum and you could say some of those things are closer to the extreme version (e.g. hair pulling and hitting) vs other things (like saying you're self-centred) which is unkind parenting at best.

I'd say these examples together paints a picture of very poor treatment and abuse and I'd try to come to terms with it rather than focus on labels if you can.