To think this is closer to a normal childhood than to extreme abuse?

[Greensl100]

I know you can’t and shouldn’t try to measure things like this but I am told that this sort of stuff constitutes extreme abuse and I just don’t think it does. I actually think it is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s.

Examples…

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

pulling hair and smacking

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest

these are some examples and of course I know none of them are brilliant parenting but I don’t think it equals extreme abuse?

Yes you were abused. I’m sorry for you too. It’s not normal and it’s not right.

This is a really sad thread.

I’m really sorry for all of the people who were so thoroughly failed by their parents 😔😔

He’s not everyone’s cup of tea but James O’Brien had an hour on how badly verbal abuse affects you throughout your whole life on yesterday’s show and it might help some people process what they are dealing with.

You absolutely did not deserve that. No child deserves that. Their behaviour is abusive and frightening.

Why is it only rich people who abuse their kids?

I don’t think it’s extreme abuse. But it sounds abusive at worst and horribly unpleasant at best. However what it definitely is not is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s

I think to some extent it is.

My local area was very working class, many families like ours were very deprived, and I do think based on the families I grew up around and the comments I’ve seen on here - parents in that demographic were the last to stop smacking children.

My mum still says things like “if he was mine he’d have had a clip round the ear by now,” whereas both my sister and I have never and would never hit our kids.

My partner grew up in leafy Cheshire and is mortified that was even a thing in the 90’s where I was.

I’m sure it happened, but I think for some reason the working/lower classes had more of a tendency for it.

So again it's only physical abuse people think of abuse....extreme expectations and being a disappointment all the time, having parents disinterested and living for their status and career sending a child away or being dismissive of them is still damaging abuse. Emotional neglect. ....but the rich absolutely did physical and sexsual abuse behind thicker walls and an atmosphere of it's non of our business, keep issues in the family. Even the super rich children were abused in their expensive schools to toughen the boy up.

I agree. I was also a child of the 60s and the NSPCC and/or Social Services would have been called in for most of these.

No way is any of this anything other than extreme abuse regardless of how many years ago it happened.

My brother recently said that he had few fond memories of childhood, that he'd suffered trauma and that he received no family love.

I was completely mystified by this as I don't see it like that at all. Turns out he's been in therapy for some time (lives on another continent), and it wasn't until I had some therapy for something else that I mentioned it...and my therapist had me look back at childhood without the rose-coloured glasses (and also reminded me that me and my sibling would have different perspectives). I still don't see "trauma" as such, but...well, it was otherwise eye-opening. The examples are similar to those you mention, minus one or two (but with more weird stuff around showing respect etc, and more fierce intimidation and menace than actual violence).

But still, "normal" for the 70's/80's...imo. We were conditioned to accept it and for me, no good comes of endless navel-gazing and blame. They were different times and my parent/step-parent did the best they could with what they knew and what they learned from their (horribly vicious) parents before.

I grew up in the 90s and thought I had strict parents but absolutely nothing like this. I'm sorry you had to experience this OP and hope you get the love and support you need to heal xx

This is in the extremely abusive category

It's kind of irrelevant where it sits on the spectrum from "mild" to "extreme" abuse. It's an abuse of power by someone in a position of authority.

I think these vary in their "severity". I find the idea of a parent deliberately trashing a child's room in punishment really shocking and upsetting. Hitting and hair-pulling ditto. Denying a child the right to cook or clean for themselves falls into a category which I would say is designed to belittle or remove dignity which, while not violent, is abusive. Exposing a child to violence or threatening their dignity is clear abuse in my view and I can't see why anyone would find that normal.

I find the idea of a parent leaving a teenager to fend for themself for this length of time highly irresponsible, though closer to neglect than abuse. Some of the things on the list I would say are milder forms of abuse. Saying a child is "self-centred" is more borderline: hurtful but in certain circumstances could be justified.

But all of these are actions calculated to hurt or humiliate a child or to establish dominance over them. Whether or not its "normal" in your world, it's a pattern of abusive behaviour.

I also think what you need to explore is why you feel so upset by the way the therapist has characterised it. It may be an exaggeration to present a simple story or for impact. But why are you so preoccupied with where on the scale it falls?

Your behaviour if bad, was a symptom of your abuse, not the cause of it. When you grow up in a volatile household it’s going to impact on what you view as normal. I would highly recommend getting some therapy to help you identify what happened to you and unpick the potential harm it’s caused

I grew up in the 90s in, bluntly, a very dysfunctional family and I experienced nothing like that.

So going through that and trying to think of my own upbringing...

Whilst my room was never trashed my mum did once lock us both in my room and start throwing all of my stuff into bin bags and throwing them out the window, think it was more of an issue as until that point my bedroom was my safe space and it wasn't after that

They didn't leave me alone at 15, but after I once opted out of a family holiday at 17 (due to undisclosed trauma id been through) they never invited me on holiday again even though my siblings were always welcome

I got the being self centered thing but I see myself as I was a difficult teen with mh problems so understood why they felt that way

Was smacked as a form of discipline till I was about 13/14 at which point the last time it happened I told them I'd tell someone they were hitting me as I felt it was wrong (though normalised in the 90s)

They didn't let me use the washing machine or cook though I don't see that as a particular abusive thing, it's more my mum was a SAHM and she felt that was her role and we never did it to her standards anyway

I left home at 18 for uni and was asked at 21 If I "understood is moved out and there was no coming back after uni and this was no longer home" (despite all my siblings being welcomed back after uni) and when I was in an abusive relationship and I told my mum I'd found out he'd cheated her only response was ",what about the rent?-we shared a flat). Zero offer of any help or support

So yeah do have a few things there I experienced...it's hard for me to process it as "abusive" I guess...I would definitely say my parents are emotionally immature but I also accept that's not their fault and they were largely just a product of the time we were in (80s/90s) . They were raised by their parents etc and the further you go back the worse it was in a way?

I'm sorry you've been though that though x

I had therapy recently for the first time ever.
my therapist also opened my eyes to what an abusive childhood looked like and it shattered
me. Taken a lot of time to process. But we only have our own experience of childhood and the therapist had the perceptive of knowing what abusive childhoods looked like.
the hard part is when you deal with the emotions - anger/can you forgive your parents etc. I found it well worth it as I reflected on my own parenting and spotted some patterns in myself that I needed to improve

Sorry @Greensl100 but only the second one is remotely normal (parents going away leaving a 15 yo at home for a week - only if 15 yo is happy with it though)

I agree with that. It's being listened to, validated, "getting it off your chest" it becomes easier to deal with than bottling it up and only having your own thoughts to make sense of things.
Just like when something happens now, as an adult, if you have a trusted person, you tend to feel better after sharing it.

I think you have to look back carefully and accept it was abusive but maybe not intentional. My parents were abusive in similar ways. My mum grew up with a mentally ill mother, witnessed failed suicides and many other struggles. She Completely lacked confidence as a child and felt like the fat, stupid, ugly one. As a mother, She had all the power in our house. We all (including my dad) stepped on eggshells because standing up for ourselves made it worse. I often called her out as a teen after I lost respect for her as an approx 9 year old when my
older sibling told me that she wasn’t satisfied with her rage until we cried. Then she would eventually cry herself , shouting and and throwing things around stopped and she would apologise. Then all would be well for a few days. To this day I am an uncomfortable hugger because I associate it with insincere apologies. Insincere becuase I knew that after this sorry, it would all happens on repeat again and again. If we had a weekend without a rage, I knew one was coming, if we had two weekends without one then we were in for a really bad one that would last into the night for the whole weekend. One day ,during her regular rage and rampage around the house, I held back the tears to test this theory. Well, it went on and on . She spat in my face as she screamed “why arent you crying yet” . A lot changed after that day for me and I could tell she was totally pissed off that she had lost that ability. However I cried to myself most nights until I left home. When I stood up to her, her fury impacted the whole house. She hated me for calling her out and encouraging my siblings to see her behaviour for what it was. I had to hold back so that she didn’t make everyone’s life hell. I fantasised about going into care and used to look at nice looking houses and pretend it was my foster home. I didn’t dare go to social services because I worried that my younger siblings (who were conditioned to the behaviour and didn’t know better) would be separated and even more traumatised and would blame me for it all. It was a weight to carry. We had no freedom in the house, from choosing a tv channel, playing in our rooms to choosing when we could shower or change our clothes. All my siblings are messed up from it but not all see that her behaviour was abusive. Honestly she was and is mentally ill. I also suspect autism. She had no role model and probably thought our childhoods were at least better than hers. I have never had counselling but have talked about my childhood to others and that was enough for me. I am at peace with it. But if you ever hear repeated screaming and crying through your walls..please report it. Nobody came and I was at least 9 before I could even begin to understand my life was not normal. I sort of knew as I covered up about homelife, I was embarrassed and made sure there were no tears by the time I reached school. But Jesus, the amount of screaming and yelling that went on in that house should have led to someone to reporting us.
Sorry that was long but I love getting g it off of my chest and encouraging people to report to SS if in any doubt. If I had been asked in safe space, I would have spilled my heart out.

I haven't, ever. And don't know anyone who has.
I would class all these things as abuse. I never thought of abuse in terms of grading so can't think that it needs to be classed as extreme abuse ir 'standard' or 'low level' abuse.
You are concentrating on the least important detail in the great scheme of things. This is abuse full stop. Even worse that it happened to a defenceless child and teenager. It would be very bad if it happened to an adult let alone to a minor.
It doesn't matter that it could have been worse (whatever your definition of worse might be). This is what happened to you, don't try and compare to other potential scenarios. Hopefully this step will help you in your journey with the therapist.
I wish I could give a warm hug to you as the child and teenager you were when you were going through these awful experiences.

No, OP has already clarified she is the child, at least read her posts on a sensitive thread before commenting

But they were also really normal parents... Buying me everything I needed, including a mobile phone and laptop... I had freedom to go out with my friends... It was just when I misbehaved I was immediately disciplined and always thought the worst of (e g. If sibling made an allegation they'd assume it was true) .... Is that not just on the extreme end of normal that some families are harsh with their words and discipline? My dh family was the same. He received corporal punishment and didn't have a loving, compassionate home life. His was strict and unloving also... Although I don't think they ever criticised his character, like my parents did mine.

No, it's not an odd assumption at all. Some therapists are poorly trained, or therapists in name only. And many therapists deal with a clientele who have never experienced overt abuse, or abuse at all.

To call the things OP lists, while it is a distressing list, "extreme abuse" leaves no room for actual extreme abuse.

What I experienced would be called uber-uber-uber extreme abuse, in that case, and the actual extreme abuse many children endure would have no name at all.

Sending love to everyone who have been abused, and those reading this thread who are just realising their childhood wasn’t normal.