To think this is closer to a normal childhood than to extreme abuse?

[Greensl100]

I know you can’t and shouldn’t try to measure things like this but I am told that this sort of stuff constitutes extreme abuse and I just don’t think it does. I actually think it is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s.

Examples…

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

pulling hair and smacking

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest

these are some examples and of course I know none of them are brilliant parenting but I don’t think it equals extreme abuse?

No. I grew up in the 80s & 90’s, none of that happened to me or to any of my friends that I know of. I understand this is difficult but saying there is worse abuse is just madness. Your childhood was abusive, try not to focus on the word extreme if that’s what is upsetting but you do need to accept that this is not normal.

I’d say it was abusive, by today’s standards extremely abusive, 90s standards I’d say the impact is the same but yeah maybe a bit more common at the time for some of it - smacking. But the trashing the room, the not getting rid of the pet, hair pulling and not allowing a teenager to make use of the house is all abusive even if we make allowances for the time

My mum trashed my bedroom after I thought it was a good idea to get out of her car at traffic lights and smashed her car door into another car, aged about 13.
Never left alone for week, although I was allowed to go on holiday with friends, sea cadets, friends of friends, etc without any real checks what was happening or where I was.
My nan slapped me, full swing across the face - can’t remember what I’d said but I can guarantee it was probably obnoxious.
I didn’t know how to cook or use the washing machine but remember the heating couldn’t be on between Feb-Dec - not that stopped me, whilst she was working two jobs, putting it on to dry a single item of clothing, selfish teenager that I was.
Mum would take the house phone to work with her to prevent myself and my sister from running up the bill.
Can remember friend’s mums saying what a clear complexion I had and negatively comparing their child’s against mine. School teachers negativity comparing my sisters intelligence against mine.
Born 1972 - seems like a relatively normal - ish childhood to me

I'm sorry you experienced this, OP. Maybe it's not necessary to dispute whether this is 'extreme abuse' or not, and instead it's better to work towards accepting that it shouldn't have happened and you didn't deserve it?

It's good you're in therapy. I'm in therapy for much less serious childhood stuff and it really helps. If you find it hard to accept the label of 'abuse', that could be something worth bringing up with them so you can explore why.

What a load of crap.

I think the bigger issue here is why you have reacted so strongly to the use of the word 'extreme'.

I think that's where the unpacking is needed.

I would say it is not extreme abuse if it's a one off, or occasional remark - maybe depending how it's said as well- but I think it is abusive as part of a pattern of behavour as described.

Yes.

There wasn't a one-off isolated incident

It was frequent by the look of it

So feel free not to read (or comment)

Does it matter if there's worse out there?

The point is what you suffered

It really is abusive.

I can see why you're struggling with the definition OP, I too went through similar. I was also denied bathing more than once a week, as a 15 year old left to care for an elderly relative with incontinence for months at a time whilst parent went away on holiday, not allowed to use cooking/ cleaning facilities as I'd ' damage something ', had to keep house absolutely spotless without a crumb on the floor else I'd be subjected to the silent treatment or constant huffing or puffing/ verbal abuse, was constantly told I was boring in comparison to my friends, mocked for my looks/dress. In my twenties I went through therapy and my psychologist told me it was abuse and neglect but I didn't believe her. I was still far too entrenched in the family dynamic to understand and wasn't emotionally equipped to deal with the consequences of such a statement. I wish I could have that same therapy now as a middle aged woman with chronic anxiety and depression; it's took a lifetime of sole introspection and unpicking to see it for what it was - abuse. I agree with pp if I'd have had just one responsible, consistent caregiver who had helped and supported me, rather than turn away or exclaim I was " too sensitive ", my life could have turned out very differently. Don't lose your opportunity to get the help you so need - if you don't lean into it and do the work, as hard as it may be to confront, you're limiting your chances of getting the life you deserve.

That’s way beyond normal abuse and every child deserves better

the only thing I could possible relate to is being called self centred and given what I now know about kids I can see how that happened

And not a race to the bottom

yes it could be worse but that’s not relevant

Some of the things from when you were younger, in isolation I would put as relatively mainstream for the 80s. But there is some nasty stuff there too especially as a teen and adult. I could definitely tick off several things from your list, but no one trashed my room or denied me clean clothes.

Trashing a bedroom and pulling hair are definitely abusive things, even in the 60s and 70s when I grew up.

Leaving a 15 year old for a week and exposing them to known allergies - deeply irresponsible parenting.

The other stuff, some of it depends on context. Smacking is abusive now but was totally standard parenting once.

None of it sounds like good parenting, let's put it that way.

I wouldn’t say extreme abuse, but pulling hair is terrible and trashing a kids room isn’t right, why did they do that?

I’m a child of the 80’s, teen of the 90’s, I remember my mum shouting & screaming at me that I was a spoiled brat (I had stolen coins out of her purse though!) she also smacked me. Parents went away and left us for short breaks, probably when I was a similar age

We must have been in a different working class 90’s.

My mam was a proper council estate mam. She thought absolutely nothing of giving us “a clip” when we misbehaved, would bellow into the street that tea was ready, etc etc. Her word was (and still is!) final.

She did go on holiday with my younger brother in the week between my GCSES, I’ll have been 16. I stayed at home, by choice.

Yes we saw the occasional slipper, or clip round the head, if we were out of line. But for me it’s about thresholds and levels.

None of us were ever injured, or marked in any way, or attacked. She has never pulled my hair, smashed up my things, and she’s never given me food that she knows I’m allergic to.

The 90’s were a different time for some, discipline wise, but not all of it was outright abuse in the way OP describes.

I had a chaotic childhood but to me it was normal and I never questioned it. I just assumed that everyone’s parents did the same things as mine did to me. The same as you, I had a therapist tell me it was abuse and neglect - seemingly out of the blue. When you know nothing else, it’s hard to see the light for the trees. Are your parents still alive? Mine aren’t so labelling it as abuse seemed almost disloyal or like I was going behind their back by even thinking that. Thankfully with therapy I have been able to see it for what it was, and make peace with it. What therapy are you having - id recommend a therapist specially trained in trauma who can help you reframe it and look back on your life experiences and how/if your childhood has affected various areas. It wasn’t until I looked into signs of childhood trauma in adults that I really had that moment where it all clicked into place.

It's not extreme abuse, shit parenting though, definitely.

Also a child/teen of the 80s and 90s and some of that is familiar to me.

I accept it was very damaging, likely abusive but I also don't think of it as extreme abuse (but then I have friends who were physically or sexually abused by parents so my reference point is very very skewed).

This is within the context of very "normal", middle class upbringing. No cultural differences. Just utterly damaged boomer parents with the emotional intelligence of a toddler. All of my friends from school would have experienced at least one of those examples. And a couple much much worse .

I feel very sad about it and have lost a sibling to the emotional damage.

I'm so sorry.

IMO it's abusive and not normal, and that makes it extreme in comparison to normal parenting.

I probably wouldn't describe it as extreme abuse.

I was born in 1993. My parents were funny about the kitchen getting messed up and wanted to be in charge of feeding me so I didn't really have free reign to cook for myself as a teenager. (but they fed me every day and washed my clothes!) I was smacked once or twice as a young child and probably called selfish/self centred a few times when I was a teenager too. I think my childhood was relatively normal for my age.

My parents would have never:
Smacked me regularly
Left me alone for a week at 15
Kept a pet I was allergic to
Pulled my hair
Trashed my room

So reading through your examples, some things seemed normalish and some abusive to me. I hope the therapy will be helpful for you going forwards.

I’m sorry, you think it’s normal to pull your child’s hair??? Or “trash” their room? I’m not even sure what you mean by that but it conjures images of things being smashed and thrown around - why would a parent do that? You mean out of rage? Or because they’re drunk maybe? Just no. The other examples too, no.

If you are describing your own childhood then I’m really sorry to say that was not normal, not in the nineties, or the eighties, or any other time in recent history.

It is certainly abusive. I would not have behaved like that, or said those things, to my child and I was a parent in that era (I still am a parent :) but obviously we no longer live together).

The list is quite horrible! I'd feel very sorry for any child who had to endure that and wouldn't blame them if they cut their parents off altogether.

If you mean not extreme in the sense that the child was not injured or killed, then I suppose it isn't extreme. It is seriously wrong though.