To think this is closer to a normal childhood than to extreme abuse?

[Greensl100]

I know you can’t and shouldn’t try to measure things like this but I am told that this sort of stuff constitutes extreme abuse and I just don’t think it does. I actually think it is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s.

Examples…

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

pulling hair and smacking

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest

these are some examples and of course I know none of them are brilliant parenting but I don’t think it equals extreme abuse?

Examples…
one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

• one time in 18 years... weird...were they drunk? leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country) -fairly normal, not ideal, but happens all the time, even now. calling child self centred
• well I have certainly said 'Stop being so selfish ' He was being selfish. Why wouldn't I tell him? saying child needed to be more like child’s friend. -has any parent not said this to a child Declan is so good in church/ Declan keeps his room a lot tidier than you do/I hear Declan is paying for his own driving lessons...bloody Declan. forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction, -again, not rare loads of kids with allergies or asthma live around cats etc. pulling hair and smacking.. pulling hair, horrible, smacking still condoned even now. not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home. -yup again weird, but not extremely abusive, obviously.

What the fuck?!

Yes I have experienced at least one thing from your list.

I did suffer from extreme abuse.

It's not always helpful to define the 'level' of abuse, just recognising that you weren't treated well can be enough to foster recovery from it.

Think about how you are - I'm betting low self worth, no self esteem, issues with relationships, prone to anxiety/depression - just realising it's not your fault but it's because of your upbringing can help because now you're an adult, you can turn things around.

Just because it’s mostly emotional abuse doesn’t make it any less than physical
abuse.

No, they really haven't.

Oh I see - discuss that with your therapist. I think this language can reinforce a sense of helplessness.

I don't think ultimately what she calls it is important.

How do you feel, or what do you think, how did it impact you.

For me pulling hair, smacking and calling a child self centred- those clearly seem like abuse to me. Other things I would say neglect, dysfunction. I'd also say cruelty - some of things seem very cruel.

I do hear what you’re saying, and I think probably most 80s/90s kids might have had the odd thing - most of the parents I knew did get angry, and weren’t as consciously gentle as parents are now.

It’s the combination of everything that’s awful and abusive. And also the intent… a one-off smack or shouting from anger - not okay, by any means, but as a one-off in an otherwise loving and affectionate home, back in the old days… But pulling hair and not giving access to things… that sounds more malicious, cruel, and constant.

I’m not sure I would use the word ‘extreme’ but I can see it would have really had an impact, so that’s something to work through no matter what you call it.

The hardest thing about therapy for this kind of childhood is learning to accept the things that feel/felt normal but actually weren't.

Your therapist is right. That's a hellishly abusive childhood.

You'll get there though - I laughed the first time my therapist told me one of my normals was extreme abuse. Now I just feel sad for the child, and young adult, I was who thought that because it absolutely wasn't.

I feel the same as you OP. Different experiences but very definitely now would be labelled extreme abuse. Whereas I thought then, and still now, that it's just what it is. It makes me sad to realise otherwise. Sad for the child I was and sad for the adult me who carries it.

But there's not much to do now.

It's really not relevant what other people think - it's not a competitive compare trauma game. I have things on that list, I have other horrific things not on that list, I wouldn't say I suffered extreme abuse, other people might say it was extreme abuse. It definitely felt absolutely horrific at the time and in the years after though and has had lasting effects.

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

I mean no, this is not normal behaviour. In what context would trashing the childs bedroom be okay or normal? The only thing I could think of possibly is searching for something in a teens bedroom like drugs etc could be potentially justified depending on what your definition of "trashed" is.

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

Depends I guess, if the 15 year old didn't want to go on holiday and is sensible and had other family close by on them to check in I could see this being okay, but if it was used as some sort of blackmail or punishment then that is abusive.

calling child self centred

Again much more context needed to say if this is abusive.

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

This seems cruel.

pulling hair and smacking

This is physical abuse.

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

Seems cruel.

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

Depends on the teen and the reasons why.

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest.

Again seems cruel but more context needed.

When you put all of it together, it doesn't paint a good picture OP

I wouldn’t say it’s extreme abuse but it’s crap parenting that is abusive

I would agree with others that it's abuse. I didn't suffer all of these things, but also suffered much worse. In my experience/view I'd say this is abuse, but not extreme abuse. I'm not sure I'd even call mine extreme abuse (probably in denial), but I suffered a lot of physical beatings and name calling over the years which left me with poor emotional well-being throughout adulthood.

Therapists make money from their clients remember, so some have been known to tell their clients how traumatic their childhoods were in order to earn more from them. Some may be horrified that I've stated that, but I've certainly heard of this happening.

It depends what decade this occurred in to say whether some of these were normal (abusive or not).

No matter what people think growing up in the 70s was very different to how people parent today

Edit: just saw it says 90s so not my experience but I do think the way people 'normally' parent has changed significantly

Not any sort of 'normal' childhood I've encountered! Definitely extreme abuse.

This is a reverse?

I don't know a single person who's never heard "why you can't you be more like X" (another child) at some point in their childhood, whether from a parent, a teacher, or any other adult. I think if you really think that constitutes extreme abuse you're either very sheltered or a 22yo who is here by mistake.

My parents did this constantly

Awful

I was raised in a family that did this:

Calling me self centred / selfish / egocentric

Saying I needed to be more like younger sibling

Hitting and smacking for discipline up until I was around 20 (the last time I got smacked I was 20/21yrs) - including chipping a small part of my front tooth on impact

Regularly tell me I have not made good life choices - disagree with my choice of spouse etc.

Thing is... I personally don't think I was raised in an abusive household? I assume this disciplinarian approach was what lots of families took at the time? I assumed my parents were just strict?? A lot of these things only happened when I behaved in a way that wasn't in line with their expectations.

Although, interestingly, I am diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder now, take medication for anxiety/depression and have a disconnected relationship with my parents. Maybe my childhood wasn't normal?

The reaction you're having is all part of the abuse.

Finding other people who may have experienced the same isn't all that helpful I find, and has been the basis of my least healthy helpful friendships.

But I understand the urge to, even laugh about it or call it "of the time" and create a bit of an echo chamber to back that up.

People who haven't had extreme psychological damage done to them don't seek out these kinds of narratives so much.

That's why your body is reacting negatively to your therapist. You're maybe hearing things like "you're different, you're outside the norm" when they say you experienced extreme abuse. And your brain was rewired by the abuse to reject that. Because your brain protected you when it was happening.

By putting "extreme" before abuse doesn't make it worse. Abuse is abuse and that's what the above is.

No you probably don't. I can believe that.

But just as alcoholics don't keep non drinkers in their orbit, people whose brains want to normalise either what's happened to them, or what they've done to others, also tend to build an echo chamber of this "normality"

I agree. Not saying it's right, but her therapist isn't helping telling her that it's extreme abuse and wildly uncommon. Many of us had similar.

No, no, no. I was a child in the '60s. Things were different in the '60s and '70s but the OP's post most definitely describes abuse.

Yes, my parents went away on holiday for a week when I was a teenager...but I was 17 and my best friend stayed over me with me so that I wasn't on my own. We had a telephone and my aunts kept tabs on me that way.

Trashing a room? Abuse.

Smacking was 'normal' at that time, but pulling hair? Nope. Abuse.

The pet situation? Abuse.

It's not normal.

I was a child in the 90s and experienced none of that (perhaps I might have been told I was self centred - but probably where I was being self centred).

Of course there is worse abuse than you describe but it doesn't make what happened to you right.