To think this is closer to a normal childhood than to extreme abuse?

[Greensl100]

I know you can’t and shouldn’t try to measure things like this but I am told that this sort of stuff constitutes extreme abuse and I just don’t think it does. I actually think it is within the realms of a normal childhood from the 90s.

Examples…

one occasion of parent trashing child’s bedroom

leaving 15 year old in home for a week while parents went away (in same country)

calling child self centred

saying child needed to be more like child’s friend

forcing child to spend time around a pet that caused child non life threatening allergic reaction

pulling hair and smacking

not allowing teen to use washing machine or cook for themselves in home

When left home and relationship broke down in twenties, told that they were not welcome in the family home and that if they visited they were a guest

these are some examples and of course I know none of them are brilliant parenting but I don’t think it equals extreme abuse?

It actually gets worse as it goes along and the refusing to let a teenager cook or wash clothes is of course abuse and controlling.

I think you're grouping some things that are negative in with the abuse that are a bit more just shitty than actual abuse, and maybe are convincing yourself that because those things aren't "abuse" (or at least dont sound like it at face value) some of the other things are.

Like leaving a teenager while going on holiday wouldn't be the end of the world if the teenager was independent and didn't want to go, but the teenager in question has also been forbidden from cooking and doing laundry and therefore probably isn't very self sufficient.

I would say, why does it matter what label you put on it? Is it due to shame or do you feel like you are being dramatic? If so, I can tell you that you are not being dramatic and you have nothing to be ashamed of for growing up in a household where abuse took place.

At the end of the day, they have treated you with contempt and then completely abandoned you. It's not a reflection of you, you were a child. I so hope you can get some support with moving on 💗

Agree with the safe person thing, whether it's backed by research or not, I know it's what saved my sister and I! We were each other's safe person and, as a result, haven't suffered such severe trauma as one might imagine, given our childhood experiences.

1, 2, 6 and 8 are awful.
They should never happen.

The others may well happen occasionally in good enough families, without doing much harm.

The whole lot together will have been impactful.

@Notmyreality
Are you saying you think children deserve to be treated abusively if they misbehave?

I'm a sixties child and never experienced anything like that. I was never smacked , never forced to eat my food . What you had was unusual and cruel treatment.

You’re right to feel sad. You’ve normalised it for survival, and are sad to find it wasn’t normal and wasn’t acceptable.

Feeling sad is a normal reaction though. You are grieving the childhood that you didn't have and should have had. I'm sorry.

I come from a similar background and I see what you mean. It was just relentless putdowns with a side of physical abuse but it didn't tip into starvation or sex abuse or whatever that I'd consider extreme.

It is what it was (or is) as I'm still getting told I'm oversensitive, sigh. You can grieve for wanting a better relationship but honestly, if you're not completely traumatised, then let what the therapist said go. Just let it simmer in the back of your head and see how you feel about it after time has passed. My issue is that I don't remember much and it was all competely normal for my family...

If you look at it as separate incidents then there's some abuse, some neglect and some extreme abuse. Taken all together and as a pattern, it absolutely is extreme abuse. I am so sorry this happened to you.

Of course it's abuse, but I wouldn't call it extreme abuse either. Extreme abuse would have been being punched not smacked. The hair pulling is more extreme than the smacking imo.

Sorry I posted without seeing this.

I do completely get you and I think your therapist should use words you are comfortable with, I don't see why she would keep stressing this point and I see your point; it's not like it needs to be quantified.

I would ask her not to stress this any further. I can understand why she would describe the mix of physical and verbal abuse, neglect and abandonment as "extreme", but it's not productive for you is it. On the other hand I think therapy can be uncomfortable by making us acknowledge things. I'm just really sorry you have been through this and I hope therapy does help you heal 💗

Are you talking about single incidences, or all of this happening in one family or to one person.. because the bigger picture of all of that together is extreme abuse for sure.

This. Some of those things are really abusive (forced allergic reaction! Smacking and hair pulling! Trashing a room!). Other things are not great parenting - (calling a child self centred - could depend on situation or there may be good reason why a teen wasn't to use the washing machine or cooker). But when you look at them all together, there's no way that the total sum of all of that behaviour wasn't significantly abusive.

No, I didn't experience any of the things that you have described. I don't think they are things that "normal" do.

I'm sorry that you were abused, and I'm sorry that your view of what's "normal" has been distorted. It wasn't acceptable. I hope you can find a way to heal and relearn how loving parents behave.

You have two things there that would count as assault. Forcing an allergic reaction is assault and the repeated slapping etc which you appear to say happened multiple times is also assault. That results in you having been subject to multiple assaults is imo extreme abuse. Destruction of your property, withholding access to food and clean clothes, also extreme abuse.

Sounds like a typical childhood for myself and almost all of my peers my age tbh! I wouldn’t parent my own kids this way but I don’t feel as though I have been abused. Just sounds like a classic working class 90’s upbringing.

At least 5 of your examples constitute extreme abuse imho, the rest just plain abusive. I grew up with similar abuse, except I escaped at age 17. I'm 53 now, and still sometimes struggle with the mental health repercussions.
You should go away and read up about ACEs and the potential long term effects.

It depends how you define 'extreme'. I would say most things on that list qualify as abusive, but not as extreme abuse. Calling a child self-centred is just par for the course-most kids are self-centred until they learn not to be, and that usually involves someone pointing it out.

Yes, extremely abusive. OP, it's normal to want to defend your parents, but some harsh truths need to be accepted.

My dh was an abused child, and it took him 34 years of marriage to me before he would admit that what his father did to him was physically and emotionally abusive. FINALLY admitting it was a big step toward healing.

A child doesn't have to be beaten to a pulp to be extremely abused. Your therapist is right. Accepting that will be an important step in healing.

How frequent, how often, what context...

Smacking - rare, heat of the moment ie, extreme fear, say a child dashing into a road and being yanked back last second and parent slapping bum/legs...

Or Smacking - regular; for minor infractions; within clear parameters but for things the child has little/no control over due to age...

Or smacking - regular striking across the face/bare body parts/with a weapon (slipper, belt, wooden spoon etc); for perceived offences that did not in fact exist; for breaking of rules that are never clear; unavoidable

These three examples are absolutely not the same - the first is not ideal parenting but not abuse. The second is abusive, the third is pretty extreme abuse.

Another example:

Not allowed to cook after a certain time of night...

If that's 11pm, because the extractor fan is noisey and disturbs someone sleeping - reasonable.

If its 6pm, and the teenager gets home at 6.30pm, and the adult responsible also refuses to leave food for the teenager to eat when they get in... thats abusive.

Apply the same sort of test to everything else!

I had the same response on being told that my parents were abusive, but honestly - decent parents do not do these things!

I believe that because what you went through was your norm, you might see the bigger things like trashing your room as wrong, maybe abusive, but you're numb to a lot of it as it was your everyday. This happens alot with people who have suffered abuse, their normal is skewed so they don't see how not that behaviour was. When it happens in childhood it is even harder as the child never experienced anything different. I had a relatively normal childhood, abusive relationship as an adult. It was only when talking to professionals and they told me that is was an abusive relationship that I realised. His behaviour had become so normal to me, so everyday, that I didn't quite understand.
I don't think you should focus on if you feel it was extreme or a little bit of abuse. It was abuse none the less, and it wasn't your fault. You were a child. Give yourself grace.

There's a woman who was raped by her uncle and she saw other women treated badly. She only realises it was abuse when she watched Oprah. That's when the trauma really began. Until she saw that episode she bought it was normal and didn't over think it. This kind of retrospective realisation can lead to sadness and grief for what was lost and was is now revealed but by current standards. You survived it. It made you who you are. There are lessons to be learnt. Forgiveness and grief. Maybe accountability if you can ask your parents about it and their own childhood. People have Thier own subjective view of all kinds of circumstances but it's important that you form your own view of your childhood with compassion. Sending hugs.

I find it heartbreaking that you can't see it for what it is. I'm glad you're having therapy, though, and I hope it helps x

I would say it's closer to abuse than a normal childhood, sorry if that's hard to hear.

I can understand you thinking that it's not all extreme abuse, like the kitchen/washing machine example. But there are a couple of things in there that I would consider extreme for a parent to do, like trashing your room and hair pulling. People still debate smacking to this day but it has never been acceptable for a parent to pull a child's hair.

Even by 90s standards that's way, way beyond 'not brilliant parenting'