To be struggling with friends SEN child??

[KimbleThimble]

I feel bad to write this but I also don’t want to discuss this IRL.

My friend popped over to my house today with her autistic child, and I feel like I have only just managed to sort all the destruction. I really want to spend time with my friend, and I adore her child, but she is so destructive and some of it is not repairable. For example, today she tore apart a book that my DC were gifted by a grandparent, she ripped flowers up in the garden, she broke my child’s favourite toy, that was expensive and I can’t afford to replace. We try so hard to hide away the precious things before a visit, but I can’t literally box their entire rooms up.

My friend is really down because she has had other friends make comments about similar scenarios, but believes that these things are material. She does do her best, but her daughter is 7 and very physically able. My eldest is absolutely distraught about the book and the toy. There are also jigsaw pieces that have been chewed up. The trouble is, if friend just follows her around our house, she doesn’t get any break, and even with eyes on, the destruction takes seconds.

My children are upset every time they come to visit, with fear about what will happen to their belongings.

I don’t know how to manage this situation. AIBU to be feeling this way? Especially when my friend is a single parent and this is her daily reality?

We are a neuro divergent family. I'd eat my kids... joking/not joking... if they did such things. They would pay for things they broke regardless of diagnosis or I would. We are also the most hospitable family I know. People who cannot go to anyone else's house, come to ours. There's only been one time that my kids have voiced that they didn't want a family over again and we never did it. We did other things.
We set the ground rules in our home. I keep my tone light and fluffy but I'll say to kids "Oh no thank you, we don't do that here" . We don't allow kids in bedrooms, especially with that sort of history. It's communal space/garden only. Things my kids don't want anyone else to play with, are in their rooms.

When humans are overwhelmed...sounds like your friend is....I have experienced it and seen it countless times...they shut down and stop seeing what their child is doing. It's like "Oh I'm in a safe place with 'Bobby', I can stop being hyper vigilant". They aren't even conscious of it. It's brutal for everyone else but I have a lot of empathy for people in that situation. I'm not saying you have to put up with it, in they way you have been. I'm saying you have to decide on your boundaries and family's limitations. I'm sure there's a way through

I think this is a good idea. Children who are ND do not usually react well to being told don't. It can work better to adapt your language and actions to give positive guidance. For example, my ND nephew was visiting and he took to pulling unripe apples from the trees and stomping on them. Rather than say don't or going into an explanation as to why we grow apples and leave them till they ripen, I got him to help me clean up little ponds I have in butler sinks. Yes, pond weed, along with a couple of plants went flying around the garden but it didn't matter. Being destructive with your children's belongings does need to be avoided. Is there a place you can meet part way, a national trust property or woods or something. Going to someone's house without anything to do is difficult for a lot of children to manage.

I can't argue with any of this

Encourage your friend to enroll her child in occasional respite care and during that time invite friend over for dinner etc.

you know that there is no childcare for children like the OP's friend. You also cannot enroll your child for respite. It's funded usually by social services and takes years and years of fighting (17 years in my case). If people have no understanding of the realities of bringing up a child with severe disabilities, they really shouldn't make such stupid comments.

Cutting the child out of the visits isn’t the answer - neither is restricting her access to outside and the kitchen. That’s the very definition of ‘othering’ and pitched in the terms you’ve outlined here, it’s guaranteed to end the friendship. And l don’t know where to start with your ideas on respite - which you can’t simply ‘enrol’ for and which very likely won’t be available for a child with such high level needs. You seem to have little idea of the squeezed funding and the need for families to fight for every concession.

You don't have to make a big deal.out of it to your friend, just change the plans. I'm not sure how it pans out when you're together but with a ND child like this, you can't just let them play while you have a chat between the adults. You do have to be on high alert I'm afraid. Her child obviously has no understanding of what she's doing and is seeking sensory stimulation but the impact on your children is too much.

Has you friend go aupport from NAS, social worker, school? It does sound like she needs respite.

Encourage your friend to enroll her child in occasional respite care and during that time invite friend over for dinner etc.

Do people honestly believe it's that simple?

Respite care is notoriously difficult to obtain funding for, even for children with profound disabilities. Having a diagnosis of Autism is not enough to automatically qualify for respite, but I've seen a few threads on here recently where posters seem to assume this is the case. I think the majority of people have no idea how bad things have to be before SEN parents can get support that makes any kind of practical difference to their day to day lives. The majority of 'support' offered is along the lines "look at these websites, watch this YouTube video, book onto this 2 hour Zoom workshop about Autism friendly parenting strategies", nothing that actually gives you anything approaching a 'break'.

All the more reason she can’t be roaming around your house unattended. Unfortunately your house can’t be your friends respite from parenting.

I do not have SEN kids myself so I may not be qualified to say this. But, OP’s friend was having a much needed & by the sound of things rare break.

If I had a child with such high needs I’d really struggle to cope, and I think if a friend approached me about a damaged book & a broken toy I’d probably agree to replace then but be furious at their lack of empathy.

I get that kids have favourite toys, and yes is upsetting but don’t bring it up with a woman whose life is so much harder than yours.

Goibg forward, try to change to meet-up locations

I agree with this. It's better to model a problem solving approach than a sacrificial one. It's not a good lesson for kids to learn to always put themselves second for other people's sake or to be nice. It took me years to undo that and learn that boundaries were good and I actually matter too. It's very harmful.

I don’t agree at all. The OP’s children and this child are not the same. It is perfectly reasonable to teach children that a higher standard of behaviour is expected of them than a disabled child.

I know I've already posted....but some of these responses are really ignorant.

For those that think this child's behaviour is down to a deficit in parental management ('I wouldn't have allowed my autistic child to behave like that' etc etc) - some children have behaviours which are virtually impossible to manage. If my non verbal DS is stopped from whatever he is engaged in, he will pull his hair out at the roots, smack his head into walls and bite himself until he bleeds. That's not to say we don't have to stop him, but it's not as simple as parenting a high functioning child. Sadly it usually means we are totally isolated.

Can you make the children's rooms off limits, so that they play in the living room or garden? You could get a few cheaper generic toys / games that can be used when she visits, but the things that your children value stay in their rooms. That would solve the material things issue, but my concern would be how difficult and stressful your children are finding it. Do they bear the brunt of the visit - are they expected to play with and entertain her daughter while mum sits back? Perhaps that is what needs to change.

There is a happy medium between putting your needs last and putting them first. I think children do need to learn that helping someone does often mean you being inconvenienced or put in a worse position. The idea that we can only support people if it is at no cost to ourselves is revolting to me (and a very common outlook).

Another vote for meeting elsewhere. Softplay on warm sunny days when they are generally quieter, the park, the beach, national trust, woods, splash park, trampoline place on a sunny day.

It's hard, I have a good friend with a 4 year old who has ASD. They are very destructive and antagonistic in their play. They really like doing things that get reactions and will purposely knock towers over, destroy things children have built, throw things children are playing with, rip up pictures, use toys very roughly for the reaction it causes. The child struggles to communicate (speaks in sentences but is not understandable as the speech sounds and words are all muffled so it sounds like toddler babble) and becomes very physical very fast, they are also a runner. Just like your friend, my friend has normalized the behavior and doesn't intervene until it becomes a crisis. She lives with destruction, physical violence from her child, screaming, shouting and daily meltdowns. She barely leaves the house as she finds his behavior very difficult and has no partner to help. When we go out, she tends to sit back and let others parent her child.

Unfortunately his play style can be very upsetting even for the most robust of our circle of friends children. We are a group of very close mum friends. My own DD, has expressed that she didn't want the child to come and play and she doesn't like them. After a few playdates that have led to destruction, a few broken toys and mainly very upset children we now only meet up at neutral venues with lots of space where the other DC can escape. We also try and avoid too much 1:1 at playdates as their child is so intense. So softplay/ water park/ trampolines is a better fit as the child will play in the water or go on the trampoline or round the softplay giving the others space.

I think your friend is slightly in denial about the level that her daughter is. If she's tearing things up and chewing things then she is probably overloaded. She should seek it to the charities to get practical tips on how to handle that and start working on it at home.

I have a few friends with autistic children so I do understand the complexity of wanting to support your friend but also protect your children. I have found the balance is to ask what activities or places to visit that they enjoy or are better environments for them and we take it from there. That way no destruction for my children and their children are less overloaded so more comfortable.
If they say oh well they don't mind coming to yours simply and gently reply of they seemed overloaded why don't we try X instead.

Yes, it doesn't matter what their feelings or needs are. They can deal with their stuff being repeatedly destroyed and the hurt of that. They can learn their parent doesn't protect them and learn they can't rely on them to help them.

Or they can learn there's a way to meet everyone's needs and meet elsewhere.

The cost OP's children are paying is more than is reasonable to expect. Some inconvenience and accommodating is reasonable. Being okay with having your belongings destroyed every time isn't. At minimum, they need a lock on their doors. If OP is okay with her garden being damaged, that's up to her, but her children don't have a choice at present.

being on the spectrum is not an excuse or reason to allow a child to behave how they want, they still need boundaries and rules. You friend sounds like she very much o but she’s Autistic so I am not going to do anything about it. By 7 she should know right from wrong.

@the7Vabomaybr your kids will be ok with their stuff being trashed then.

Not a chance in hell would the child be allowed back in my home.

Just because the child has SEN it’s not an excuse. SEN kids are more than capable of learning and the child should be stopped from causing the destruction. The child should be closely supervised and the fact the mum hasn’t even offered to replace the items is awful.

Poor ... everyone. But this isn't your problem to fix.

It's possible that as the child gets bigger and stronger, her behaviour may become more of an issue - even to your own children's safety.

You're right, your own children must come first. Putting them into situations you know will distress them must stop.

I think you're taking her distress at other friends taking the only reasonable course of action for their own children's safety as a block on you doing the same thing.

You aren't responsible for how she feels. But you are responsible for how your children feel through the experiences you provide.

It may be this child is actively upset by being out of her familiar environment and her own things and is reacting to that. While her mum is desperately wanting that, without accepting that it's the thing she wants (coming to visit friends) that's triggering her child.

You're both currently putting your own children's needs in second place.

I'd say end the overnights and the visits to your home - they simply don't work. Yes your friend will be sad, and you'll make yourself feel guilty, but it's better for her child and for yours. The first priority.

Meeting in neutral places, outdoors, places her child feels comfortable rather than in a strange environment full of strange things.

Your lovely friend needs help - which you aren't qualified to give. Is she actually accessing support, training, etc to help her situation? Can you help her there? Without feeling that you have to hand over access to your and your children's home and the things that matter to them?

Sorry OP, YANBU. It is a tough one though as she does sound like a good friend. We have this with a relative‘s DC.

I talk to my own DC now they are older and explain the situation in an age appropriate way and let them talk. So they have some empathy and can decide appropriate boundaries, as well as not feel like they have done something to cause the chaos.

Have you got an area of the house where you can meet without a risk of damage? Put pets and valuables away. Can you decide with DC some things she can have to play with? Does a screen keep her occupied - horrible, but better than her getting into everything. Otherwise park/playground picnics in the summer.

You can stay friends but don't invite them to your home again. To stay in touch, meet with your friend 1-2-1 and go out for dinner or similar or visit your friend at her house. Do not have them over at yours. These things don't work when there are children involved who don't know how to behave as guests. That's the problem with SEN, it's restrictive for the parents. It's not fair on your dc to feel unsafe in their own home. It's the book and toys now and physical aggression next. We've seen it all before.

I had a fiend who is in denial about her younger dd. Always complains about people not including her in things. We always welcome her and her family early and enthusiastically until during their last visit her dd2 nearly knock day dd's tooth out when she grabbed something off her without warning.

After that we never had them at ours again.

I don't have advice but just want to acknowledge that you sound like an absolutely wonderful friend and mum. Yes, your children are priority but true friendships are so important too, and it sounds like you've tried very hard to support your friend xx