It’s a Christmas one sorry! AIBU not inviting my in-laws to spend it with my family?

[OtterlyMad]

Apologies I know Christmas is still bloody ages away but our parents start asking for our Christmas plans as soon as we make it past Easter (!) so we’re under pressure to let them know. I’ll try to keep it brief.

DH has a very small family: his mum and sister (both single and live alone on the opposite side of the country to us) plus a handful of extended family they only see at weddings and funerals.

By comparison, my family is big. It’s normal to be 12+ people for Christmas dinner. My siblings and I have small houses so my mum hosts every year (she has a 4-bed semi so not a mansion by any means) and she never complains but I feel guilty and wish we could host to take the pressure off her. Sadly it’s just not feasible until we upsize which won’t happen for another couple of years yet.

For the first few years of our relationship, DH and I always celebrated Christmas apart, with our respective families. Since we got married we’ve alternated which side we spend it with. This year it’s my family’s turn. But DH always feels bad whenever we don’t see his mum and sister since it’s just the two of them. This year, he suggested that we invite them to spend Christmas with my lot (obviously we would have to ask my mum first but I know she would agree because that’s the sort of person she is). However, I think it’s unfair to place any extra burden on my mum. DH says “it’s only two more people” but that’s on top of a dozen already. Plus my family are used to it being a tight squeeze - some of us end up sitting on the floor, and it’s all elbows at the dinner table - but we muddle through and have a laugh. Frankly I can’t imagine my quiet, reserved in-laws enjoying the ruckus and I wouldn’t be able to relax because I’d be worried the whole time that they were judging my very forward, loud and (probably) drunk family members!

I told DH no and we argued about it. He has accused me of disliking his family (not true), of being selfish (because his mum and sister have to spend the day “on their own” though I’ve pointed out they’re not on their own if they’re together!!) and “gatekeeping my family” (whatever that means). Am I being unreasonable by refusing to invite them?? I just want to continue with the current arrangement where we alternate each year.

P.S. In case anyone is wondering why we can’t split it (e.g. Christmas Day with one side and Boxing Day with the other) DH’s mum and sister live a 6hr+ drive away so it has to be all or nothing really.

I’m finding it difficult to understand why you can’t see that not all families are that close. Parents and in laws may not be close because they live miles apart and hardly see eachother.

My parents and in laws aren’t close because they live miles apart, have only met 3 times in 10 years, and also because my mum was rude to my in laws last time.

I actually have a first cousin who i have never met and only spoken to once. I count him as a stranger.

They don't have to be close. They just could be friendly and make an effort. But then I grew up in a household where we scooped up various extras for Christmas day and made it welcoming.

You’re seriously using some transactional malarkey and ignoring the 12 hour round trip and more logistics to make this happen.

You really think four people should go out of their way (still don’t know if his mother and sister actually want to do this just him wanting it) for one person who is choosing to put his wants over everyone else when he himself can go and see his mum and sister for Christmas?

It would be a touch different if they lived close but they don’t. 12 hours+ round trip may be nothing to you but for many, that is a lot especially to spend it with your son/brother’s in-laws and extended family that you don’t know in their very crowded home and the cost and logistics to do so.

I come from a massive family. 12 is nothing (Dad had nine siblings) and the door was revolving for Christmas with family, children, friends, and neighbours but there were eight bedrooms so more than enough space and areas that were a bit more quiet. My aunt does the hosting now and she and her husband built the equivalent of a large country house to accommodate the family with plenty of places for people to sleep if they need to stay. The family gets very loud but there are still plenty of spaces for others to go somewhere quiet when it become too much and some utilise that especially those with children because it would last until 2/3am.

Wonder what the vote would be if it was OP’s MIL writing an AIBU about hosting two extra people in her crowded home or OP’s MIL about her son urging her and her daughter to come to see him when he is far away to spend it with his wife’s immediate and extended family.

Besides, if his MIL wanted them there surely she would have invited them on her own or had done it previously years, no?

If that were the case, OP’s DH wouldn’t be pushing OP to ask her in the first place.

Curious OP, how much time do you spend with his family when you visit and him with yours on Christmas? Is he usually there for most of the day when you see your family?

I don’t think you should invite them and think if you ask your Mum you’re putting her in a difficult position. If you were hosting then yes but you’re not, your Mum is. It’s also about how everyone else would feel and as PP said, imagine if everyone invited their in laws. They won’t be in their own, they have each other, in fact we don’t even know if they’d want come. Perhaps if your DH is that upset he could go and spend Christmas with them.

If your DH is feeling guilty it’s his problem to solve not yours.

Yep, this is a fair summation of many respondents.

I also think many of them actually did read your posts and are perfectly well aware that you're in the right, but their own biases and desire to bully others into submission ensures they will never admit that.

During my first marriage of 13 years, our parents met precisely twice. During my civil partnership, my mother met my in-laws once and my father never. Obviously, they might have met more had they not started dying 7 years into the relationship but I doubt it! My partner has spent more time with my brother, SiL and their daughters, but never more than 3 times a year.

I think people whose families all live close might spend more time together but there are many of of us for whom that's just not practical.

@phoenixrosehere beat me to it. I was about to say 'imagine this OP':

" I'm hosting Christmas for my family of 12. It's frantic and makes my house burst at the seams, but I love it and wouldn't have it any other way. But now my DD has said that her DH's mum and sister have to be invited. I barely know them, and the rest of the family have never met them.
It's going to be extra work and we're going to be crammed in like sardines. And it's going to totally alter the vibe. Cooking for and hosting people I don't know will be much more stressful, and we won't be able to relax and just be us. I really don't want them here but I can't say no, can I? I feel like I'm being forced into this by my son in law."

personally I find it actually quite rude to invite extra guests to someone else’s house!
Let’s be honest, your mum would know that every other year your in laws are alone, if she wanted extra guests every other year she would have already suggested that you invite them !! - she hasn’t!
Plus, do any of your siblings bring their in-laws along? I can see this causing issues for other people attending your mums… I mean what happens when your brothers in-laws hear that your in laws received an invite but they didn’t?!
I think your husband is actually unfair to expect his relatives to be invited and hosted by someone else! Maybe HE should invite them to your house, and HE should cook for them and host them Christmas Day at yours, while you go to your mothers for the day…… then maybe you Both could also do something Boxing Day for them which includes you and you could invite your mother too so that you have a mini Christmas Boxing Day at your house with both mothers?! Or invite the inlaws to travel to yours Boxing Day and stay a few days?!

I would invite them. They may well turn down the offer anyway, but If it were the other way round and you had the small family, I am sure you wouldn't want to leave your mum all by herself at Christmas. That's really sad and quite mean. Maybe to lift the pressure off your mum, perhaps you could help her by cooking some stuff at home - maybe the veggies or the Christmas pudding and heating it up when you get to your mum's. And then perhaps others do the washing up and let your mum put her feet up. I know you say she feels that as she's the host, she should do it, but if everyone else insists she doesn't and won't take no for an answer then she will have no choice. As you have said, a small part of the reason is that you feel you won't be able to relax in front of your in-laws, but that's not really the Christmas spirit is it? As long as your husband is attentive to them, there is no reason why you can't enjoy yourself as usual.

Yes but there are differences.

I have invited a friend for xmas this year when she would be on her own. But I am inviting her to my own house, not someone else’s house where someone else will be the host.

My friend did also come to my mum’s house many years ago for xmas. But the main differences are that there were only 5 people there, not 14, and it was a 1 time thing, whereas this may well turn into a more regular occurance if op’s DH insists his mum and sister are never alone.

People are allowed to say no to things. It doesn’t mean they aren’t ‘welcoming’.

So the woman who wants and likes to host now not only has to have two strangers round for Christmas, but also has her agency removed by being given no choice about how she hosts, and doesn’t get to present a nice table of food but vegetables cooked elsewhere and brought over lukewarm? Meanwhile the OP isn’t allowed to relax because it’s not in the Christmas spirit?!

The whole thread is full of some impressive meanings of Christmas: relaxing is not allowed, alternating families isn’t the true meaning, leaving two people to have their only Christmas isn’t in the spirit – instead they should make a 12-hour round trip, stay in an Airbnb, and sit down with multiple strangers whether they want to or not. Maybe MIL/SIL would be happier at home rather than a knackering scenario that ends with them balancing a plate on their knee on the sofa, worrying about toppling the gravy on a stranger’s carpet.

*I am sure you wouldn't want to leave your mum all by herself at Christmas.
*
No one is being left "all by herself". OP's MiL has her daughter with her. Why is that not enough?

Totally agree @OtterlyMad , You and your mum are female so therefore some people expect you both to be accommodating to your husbands every wish!
I’m sorry but I think it’s extremely rude of your DH to think it’s ok to invite his mum and sister to your mothers .. but yeah I’d be telling him he’s welcome to spend Christmas at his mothers without you!
But also - Christ do MIL & SIL not have friends? Could they volunteer at a local old people home or homeless shelter Christmas Day ? Or visit friends/invite friends over? There will be hundreds of people in their local community who will also be ‘alone’ at Christmas…

Also why does your family badger you about your Christmas plans ? Surely if the arrangement is that you spend alternate Christmases at each others parents then neither family needs to ask - unless they can’t remember whether they saw you last Christmas or not…. So as soon as his or your parents ask what you’re doing this Christmas I’d just simply respond that you saw them last year so it’s the other house next year etc…
Your husband seems to think that it’s reasonable for you to spend Christmas away from your mum every other year, but isn’t willing to do the same…

I am as ever unsurprised at a staggeringly selfish man being given a free pass on MN.

DH expects the OP to emotionally blackmail her own mother into hosting and catering for people she doesn’t know well, for whom she doesn’t have room.

DH expects the rest of the OP’s family to somehow make room for people whose connection to them is “met once at the wedding if that”.
DH expects the OP to comply with his breaking a very normal agreement to alternate Xmases for his benefit.
DH expects his DM and DS to hoof across country in a 12 hour round trip and fit into this plan, apparently without even having asked them, knowing they are not “big party” people.

This is all about DH wanting to be the Big Man at the cost of all the women around him.

My family always did the big family Christmas, DPs would often have “waifs and strays”. However these were people they knew well - maybe an elderly neighbour or a great aunt or just a local friend and they invited. It wasn’t their DCiL deciding on their behalf that they could bring their own families. (which with all of them would have needed the church hall for Christmas lunch).

IME sets of in-laws who become friends independently of their DC do so because of geographical proximity and common interests - just like any friendship. If they live on opposite sides of the country and have no common interests of course they won’t be more than acquaintances. If the DH actually asked his quieter family they may well express horror at a long trip to a noisy Christmas with a dozen near strangers.

Reading comprehension really has declined on this site. Has the definition of 'alone' changed to mean 'with one other person' ?

it is a big deal to add 2 two extra guests when hosting in a crowded house. It also changes the dynamic.

OP, what is happening with your husband now? Has he accepted your perfectly reasonable position on this issue?

LOL… why wouldn’t they be strangers? They live SIX hours apart !! My parents met my in-laws at our wedding! And in 16 years of marriage they never met again!…. So yes, I’d say it’s quite fair to describe a husband and wives parents as strangers…

Can you not be yourself around your mother in law?

I’ve known my mother in law most of my adult life and no I cannot be myself around her. Neither can DH.

Even if OP does fell relaxed with her in laws the rest of her family don’t know them.
It is so not okay to lessen the OP’s entire family’s enjoyment of Christmas just to suit the DH.

Yes so perhaps he needs to stick to the arrangement he agreed to and spend alternate years! He can’t expect his wife to not see her elderly grandparents and family every other year for him, but then expect his mum and sister to him EVERY year…. Then what happens when the children come along…. If OP doesn’t upsize her house and host the whole gigantic family at hers! And what about when the husband’s sister also marries and has children - does op also have to run herself ragged then hosting her, her husband, his children and all of her sisters inlaws as they’re all now one huge happy family of inlaws and inlaws inlaws….

I wouldn't invite them. If dh wants he can have his Christmas at theirs. They are virtual strangers. My mum died after I'd been with dh for 20 years and in that time my parents met in-laws twice. Once at the wedding and once in Bridlington where we'd gone with my parents for a week and inlaws came for a day trip.
Christmas was never an issue, we spent Christmas eve with in-laws, Christmas day on our own together and boxing day with my parents before and after children.

@OtterlyMad
I am the 'mother' in this scenario, we have the biggest dining area in our home. Our Christmas count is normally 13/14, chaos and huge fun. The in-laws are always invited too. But it really is all hands on deck. I set the table the night before, we arrange a play area for the children, and on the day, no adult comes empty-handed be it veg, a vegetarian option, the children's food, the cheese board... This even goes as far as someone else cooking the main course at their place. We have a WhatsApp group long before to decide the food and who is doing what and it is always accepted that everyone shares the work, including washing up and tidying afterwards. Then on Boxing Day everyone eats all the leftovers after a long walk. Even with all the help it is still a lot of work but we wouldn't miss it for the world - a COVID Christmas brought home to me what a blessed life we have.
If your Mum (who sounds lovely and inclusive) really doesn't mind extra guests and you and the rest of the family take on a lot of the organisation and prep it is doable.

Finally I really wouldn't worry if your in-laws enjoy it or not; they may not want to come again and that is ok too. We had one set of in-laws stop coming because the other DS (who was also always invited) wanted to spend Christmas at home.
Best of luck whatever you decide.

@Maninpeace It’d be a nice thing to do.

Nice thing to do for who? Her husband? Hee MIL & SIL?? …. What about what’s ‘nice’ for @OtterlyMad , what about what’s ‘nice’ for op’s Mother ? And all her siblings etc….
It’s so sexist to think OP should be bending over backward to ‘be nice’ at the expense of her own happiness!
We are forever being told on mumsnet to ‘grow a pair’ or ‘grow a spine’…. Or that ‘NO is a full sentence’…. Or that we shouldn’t be such people pleasers and we as women shouldn’t be constantly putting our own wants and needs after our partners!

It’s sad that people spend Christmas ‘alone’ but Christ surely Op’s in-laws have friends they could invite round on Christmas for drinks or something!

I mean let a man make arrangements for his mother and sister without relying on his wife or wife’s family to accommodate everyone else at their inconvenience.

if this were the other way round and a man was saying his wife and him had spent last Christmas at her families and now she’s kicking off because she wanted to bring her family along to his family Christmas, the majority would be telling him that he’s being controlled and manipulated and tag it’s unfair for her to not spend his family Christmas with just his family etc

But OP's parents have only met OP's in-laws a couple of times, certainly not often enough to start thinking of them as family. Inviting people you hardly know to spend Christmas with them could be very awkward, particularly as OP's mum and her MIL sound like very different people.

OP's DH is the one who has moved the goalposts after agreeing the arrangement to spend alternate Christmases with each family until they can afford to buy a bigger house and host Christmas themselves. It would be unfair to make OP's mum feel obliged to invite OP's in-laws.

OP said in one of her post that their mum chooses to do everything in hosting and that she won’t allow her and other family members to help her so you and OP’s mother are not the same.

You would accept and expect help, her mother does not want help and OP is looking out for her mum knowing this.

Two people that OP's mum has only met a couple of times and the rest of OP's family probably even less than that. There's hardly enough room for the 12 people that have been invited so squeezing in two extra people will be difficult. OP's family are louder and will probably be drunk whereas her MIL is more reserved. It doesn't sound like a recipe for a relaxed Christmas Day, particularly for OP's mum.

OP's mum always refuses help in the kitchen which is her prerogative. Lots of people are quite territorial when cooking in their own homes. If she had wanted to have OP's in-laws for Christmas dinner, she would have told OP to invite them. She hasn't done that and OP's DH telling OP to ask her mum to invite his mother and sister is really cheeky and shows that he has no consideration for OP's mum.

It's not really putting on anyone is it, don't we all over cook at Christmas so we have food for a week, whether we intend to or not. Two extra people is not an inconvenience when you have a large crowd to start with.