Do you believe there will be a civil war?

[exhaustedandwholly]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I wonder if others feel the same. With everything going on, from the arrival of illegal migrants in small boats to a government that seems powerless, and with Farage gaining popularity because people are fed up, it feels like tension is rising across the country.

People are frustrated. You try to raise concerns and are instantly labelled a racist or bigot, even when your worries are about integration, safety, and national identity, not race. It feels like any honest conversation is being shut down.

There are parts of the UK where people who were born and raised here no longer feel at home. In some areas, if you are not part of the dominant local community, you can feel completely out of place or even unsafe walking alone at night. That is not right in your own country.

It is not just about people coming from Muslim-majority countries or those arriving illegally. There are also large numbers of Eastern Europeans, including Bulgarians, Romanians, and Russians. Many work hard and contribute, but there are also communities forming where people keep to themselves, speak no English, and make no effort to integrate. Some of these areas are experiencing rising antisocial behaviour, crime, and a breakdown of community life.

You can find videos online showing the state of some of these areas, with rubbish piling up, people ignoring the rules, and no sign of enforcement. It looks lawless, and it often is. But speaking about it honestly is considered of limits.

I live next to a Muslim family and they are wonderful people. Friendly, respectful, hardworking. So this is not about judging individuals. This is about a wider pattern where people are arriving, not integrating, and changing the fabric of our country in ways no one voted for.

We are a Christian country with our own traditions, values, and way of life. Why is it seen as wrong to want to preserve that? If we moved to Saudi Arabia, Bulgaria, or Russia, we would be expected to adapt to their culture. So why is it unacceptable to ask the same here?

The anger and division in this country are growing. I do not want unrest or conflict, but I cannot ignore what feels like a serious shift. When ordinary people feel ignored for too long, things eventually boil over.

Is anyone else feeling this? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it anymore?

People want immigrants to be treated with humanity, not be the targets of racist and xenophobic propaganda and not used as fodder for the political ambitions of a far right political movement. Or at least some of us feel this way.

"It simply doesn't work any more" primarily because it's now more acceptable to be openly racist and xenophobic, thanks to 'free speech absolutists' and the rise of the far right.

As for what cultures do you think make up the culture of the UK - I'll bite. It depends what you mean by 'culture' doesn't it? When you're talking about cultural differences, what are you referring to? I'm a white, British born person but I suspect my values couldn't be more different than many of the Reform supporting posters on this board, who think of themselves as steeped in British values and traditions.

‘but there are also communities forming where people keep to themselves, speak no English, and make no effort to integrate’ you could say the same of British ex-pats who live in France/ Spain/ Italy/ Greece/ any other place where English is not the first language.
Set your Time Machine for early 1930s Germany and you’ll feel right at home sweetie.

My dad was a diplomat and as a child I lived in India, Sri Lanka, Kenya and Thailand. British people living in these countries almost NEVER speak local languages. They don't use local schools. They have special clubs where they congregate with other British people. As a child in Kenya I literally used to go somewhere called 'The British Club'.

I don't get this fixation on wanting people to integrate. I don't want to integrate with Reform voters. I don't share their moral or cultural values. I wouldn't want to live next door to a Reform voter. I also don't mix with very, very posh people, or many impoverished people. Not out of choice - I just don't have many friends that fall into these demographics. Most of my friends are middle aged professional people. Some of them aren't white and some of them aren't born in the UK. But they share my moral values. That's how life works.

Also the 'I expect 'forrin people' who I despise and see as backwards to want to integrate with me' vibe. Why the hell should immigrants want to integrate with Reform voters? I'm white and British and I don't want to integrate with Reform voters.

Last time I visited the Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery they had an exhibition on all the people of Empire - India, and all the African colonies - who served in the British army in WW1 and WW2. In their hundreds of thousands.

The exhibition made the point they were the forbears of a lot of the immigrants into Birmingham over the years.

Our literature, our choral tradition (quite unique, and internationally celebrated), architecture, our beautiful intricate language, our culture of "enabling eccentrics" (unsure how to put it, but it is a British quirk), philosophers... The list goes on and on and on. Read a book, go listen to an evensong (whether you're Christian or not), go look at the ceiling of the British Museum (for the Norman Foster, don't misunderstand and complain we've nabbed a bunch of things and put them in the "British" museum)...

We don't recognise it when it is the norm for us but, take it from someone of dual culture and language, these things are distinctly British and should be celebrated. Obviously many cultures have great literary traditions, architecture, etc, and each should be individually celebrated.

Two things: nobody is proposing to replace that culture or remove it. Unless of course you buy into the Great Replacement Theory conspiracy bollocks, in which case you probably think that Islam will take over and remove all our figurative art.

Second thing is that culture is not a static thing. There are many authors who write in English who are not British and yet have contributed enormously to English language literature. You can't put culture in a locked box. It will rot.

Newcomers into the UK bring their own culture with them and inevitably there will be cross pollination. This is a good thing, it makes us richer.

Back to the thread point, is when is the civil war starting? I have veg growing in the garden, do I need to 'harvest' it on Saturday and I've got plans to go to a summer fair on Sunday, do I need to take camo gear and extra rations?

The only civil war is on here, which seems to be in full flight at the moment

The problem is in a godless society Bonnie Blue is normalised and Only Fans/porn culture.

I'm not religious FWIW, but religion is about restricting human vices and general control, supposedly for the benefit of society.

It can go way too far in various ways but so can a godless society which is what we are now really in the west. Muslim numbers and culture will only increase though, especially with infinity immigration and their high birth rates.

Nobody is into it. People come here for the safety

We don't need uprising. Thank you very much. Just the authorities to get on with their job

But let's see, safe people coming here for the safety bothers other people who want the safe safety certain colour

Who comes here for safety? To Mumsnet?

U know which here. The island

Sorry, I'm about confused and I think so are you as you have totally misconstrued my point which as well you know is very valid, that most people don't like violence.

Not buying that. Religion, Islam included, is about the control of women. Any societal benefits are a small silver lining. I am all for curbing born and Bonnie Blue makes me sad, but going back to 'the good old days' isn't the answer. We can improve society whilst remaining secular.

Religion exploits our individual connection with the universe. It creates superstition to leverage power. Were you lucky in todays hunt ? Well that's because that guy over there waved a stick. Make sure you do what he says so he waves his stick tomorrow. And remember that if he waves his stick and your hunt doesn't pay off then it will because you did something wrong.

Set that running for a few thousand generations and you too will have invented paganism, Judiasm, Hinduism, Christianity, Islam and all the other -isms that seek to control people.

We are a social species, and as such tend towards social explanations. Even theologies that promote personal development do it through a prism of engagement with others.

Its questions around this that are behind the groundswell of "concern" over immigration. With the vast majority of people trying to grapple with how their connection with an almighty creator is reflected in the rapidly developing modern world and that to cheaply dismiss their profound anxieties about the UKs spiritual development as "not liking brown people" is a wicked calumny that this thread has clearly shown is a foul libel.

I don't get this fixation on wanting people to integrate.

I don’t get moving to a country if you don’t want to integrate.

👏👏👏Absolutely.

It depends on how you define integration, surely? I'm Dutch. I have lived in the UK for 28 years and been bilingual for 47 years. However, I have not naturalised (because I would like my Dutch passport if I did, and I may wish to leave), I only vaguely understand cricket, and in sporting events I cheer for the Netherlands (unless the sportsperson in question is a paedophile like that beach volleyball player). On the other hand I make a mean Yorkshire from scratch and will readily concede that this country probably makes the best sausages in the world. Will that do? What are the criteria?

Totally agree.

Yes that will do. Good work 👌

I also wonder what "integrate" means.

I've lived in two countries other than the UK. In each, I learned to communicate effectively in the local languages, made an effort to learn about the local culture and etiquette etc, tried lots of local food, partipated in various cultural events and activities, made lots of local friends etc.

But while I respected the culture of my host countries, I didn't adopt those cultures in their entirety. I retained many of my own habits, traditions, values and beliefs. Dressed as I would usually dress. I carried on using English as well as the host language. Listened to English language radio/watched English language films. Ate a lot of my own food. And I often got together with British friends who were living in the same countries.

Did I fail to integrate properly? I don't think so, I actually felt very well integrated. I fully participated in my host society, but that didn't mean abandoning my roots.

There are a lot of migrant families in my area. I don't really see evidence of them failing to integrate, but perhaps people define "integration" in different ways.