Do you believe there will be a civil war?

[exhaustedandwholly]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I wonder if others feel the same. With everything going on, from the arrival of illegal migrants in small boats to a government that seems powerless, and with Farage gaining popularity because people are fed up, it feels like tension is rising across the country.

People are frustrated. You try to raise concerns and are instantly labelled a racist or bigot, even when your worries are about integration, safety, and national identity, not race. It feels like any honest conversation is being shut down.

There are parts of the UK where people who were born and raised here no longer feel at home. In some areas, if you are not part of the dominant local community, you can feel completely out of place or even unsafe walking alone at night. That is not right in your own country.

It is not just about people coming from Muslim-majority countries or those arriving illegally. There are also large numbers of Eastern Europeans, including Bulgarians, Romanians, and Russians. Many work hard and contribute, but there are also communities forming where people keep to themselves, speak no English, and make no effort to integrate. Some of these areas are experiencing rising antisocial behaviour, crime, and a breakdown of community life.

You can find videos online showing the state of some of these areas, with rubbish piling up, people ignoring the rules, and no sign of enforcement. It looks lawless, and it often is. But speaking about it honestly is considered of limits.

I live next to a Muslim family and they are wonderful people. Friendly, respectful, hardworking. So this is not about judging individuals. This is about a wider pattern where people are arriving, not integrating, and changing the fabric of our country in ways no one voted for.

We are a Christian country with our own traditions, values, and way of life. Why is it seen as wrong to want to preserve that? If we moved to Saudi Arabia, Bulgaria, or Russia, we would be expected to adapt to their culture. So why is it unacceptable to ask the same here?

The anger and division in this country are growing. I do not want unrest or conflict, but I cannot ignore what feels like a serious shift. When ordinary people feel ignored for too long, things eventually boil over.

Is anyone else feeling this? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it anymore?

I actually find your comment about "underclass" really gross and offensive and think it has more of a representation of you than the people you think you're talking about and so full of assumptions.

Actually many of my Asian friend's parents or grandparents came in the post war period in very large numbers. And besides many Indians who come to the UK now come as a result of Brexit (lack of labour due to difficulties hiring from Europe and Europeans leaving) and most of them have degrees and speak English (due to stringent visa requirements). I'm not sure what makes them an underclass? Who exactly are you calling an underclass and what makes them underclass?

I am in complete disbelief at this appalling trend for British people to sneer and scoff at the English culture and history. I am Welsh by the way, with a Scottish father.. and it seems OK still be proud of your heritage in Wales and Scotland, Ireland too. But this attitude towards England is ugly to say the least. I blame the education system, its seems all they've taught is 'whitemanbadcolonisersthecrusadesracistbigotmulticulturalismisourstregnthenglishfoodbadnospiceistandwithrefugeeswhitemenrapetoonosuchthingaschristianvaluesandcatholicsareallpedos.'
I place my hopes in Gen Z. Gen X and Millenials have been entirely captured and brainwashed into self-hatred, utter scorn and disdain for their own race. My ancestors scraped a living from their welsh valleys and highland crofts, barely living to the age of 50 most of them.. and yet they were apparently colonisers and slave traders.

I do wonder if the posters talking about shovelling shit would choose the poetry loving early adopters now for their DDs to grow up in. If they have dc.

I am in complete disbelief at this appalling trend for British people to sneer and scoff at the English culture and history.

I will be honest, I can't really see much evidence of any knowledge of history here.

History though.. and the current use of religion. You’re not going back in time to poetry and shite.

I think what's bothering @AWitchCalledMeg is criticism of our history of colonial exploitation.

I'm wondering how much she knows about British colonialism, given that she feels criticism of it is unjustified.

She frames acknowledgement of the historical wrongs of British foreign policy as 'self hatred', as is acknowledging the existence of racism and vocally rejecting it. It's a culture war stance and you see it a lot on far right social media.

It baffles me as to why I’m expected to be ‘proud’ of my heritage, just because I happen to have been born in a particular place. Why should I automatically feel pride? I’m proud of the things I’ve achieved. Not where I happen to have been born.

@AWitchCalledMeg

"that it is absolute madness for us to have the entire worlds 'underclass' pouring in"

What makes someone a member of an 'underclass'?

My father in law came here from Guyana as part of the Windrush generation to do a manual job on the railways. He wasn't a graduate or a skilled person. Eventually he ended up in the ticket office on the railway and worked there for decades until retirement. Would you count him as a member of the underclass? Certainly people of your persuasion in the 1950's probably did - hence the 'no blacks, no dogs, no Irish' signs that you'd see outside boarding houses at the time.

Underclass / untermensch ?

This dehumanising language really does make one think of the rhetoric of 80 or so years ago. This is how it starts. There's that poem, isn't there, about the moving goal posts in terms of who is worthy of life?

Everyone's existence is an accident of birth, that is all.

How can people revere such things as "Christian values" and spout the hatred seen here - it's a direct contradiction.

There's plenty to be admired across all cultures - music, art, literature and philanthropy, achieved by individuals or groups looking to make the world a better place. Why does it have to come wrapped up in a flag?

The problems we see looming and growing are due to the rampant greed of end stage capitalism and the fact that creating division feeds the money machine. Money = power. It won't matter one jot how patriotic you are when the shit hits the fan and you're expected to give up "freedoms" or your life so TPTB can live in luxury and you realise how disposable and unimportant you are.

The people - flesh and blood and sentient people - that you are encouraged to see as "other" are a diversion and a scapegoat so that the powerful can protect themselves. By now we should have evolved past this.

The dirty truth about British colonialism is that it enabled the upper classes the means to keep the workers poor. Also very little of the wealth stolen actually made it's way into everyday life. I mean how many mill workers had stately homes to ponce around in posing for Gainsborough ?

However, it is what it is. And that is - at least in some part - a long continuation of the fact that Britain is a mongrel nation. Not by design. By happenstance - a word that may have been especially constructed for the job.

Indeed, religions and those who observe them are generally pacifist.

But the elephant in the room is radical Islam, which literally seeks global domination in a way that Christianity hasn't done for centuries. The UK’s counterterrorism agencies have clearly stated that Islamist terrorism will remain our most significant terrorism threat for the foreseeable future. It's the main reason we all have to queue through security at airports.

The Arras school stabbings in 2023 happened because Hamas called for a global day of protest on 13 October, just after attacking Israel, and the perpetrator in France was ready for action. It should give us pause for thought that the first "pro-Palestine" rally in London, on 14 October, was applied for on 7 Oct as the atrocities in Israel were unfolding.

It only takes a few wrong'uns to destabilise national security and, while immigration has worked well in the past and enriched our culture, it is naive to deny that the current situation is risk free.

Meanwhile, this sort of thing is just treated as a bit of fun.
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/645943-radical-islam

So you're still not willing to say why you hate London?

Ha ha, you are really all over the place. I live in London!

Maybe, but it’s not something most people would choose for their children and white people aren’t a minority.

Agree.
I posted about this on another thread of my own experience.

But the elephant in the room is radical Islam,

Which has fuck all to do with Islam. It's a corruption and has been called out as such by many Muslims. In exactly the same way that the perversion of "Christianity" by the right wing is being called out (on this very thread) by people who are Christians. And in both cases, I don't have a problem with them. They aren't requiring me to pawn my conscience.

The excruciating irony is that I know the Bible explicitly warns against those that would seek to deceive in Gods name. Which anyone who had read it (so few on this thread) would know.

@NaicePeachJoker

Do you like where you live?

What's the ethnic mix?

Is it an affluent area?

I seem to remember you being appalled at the thought of living in an area where there are mosques and asylum hostels. You weren't able or willing to say why. Can you say why now?

FWIW there are hundreds of mosques in London. I imagine there are some where you live. Is that a problem for you?

@MistressoftheDarkSidedo you think there should be borders with some sort of limits or more free for all?

Not many say no borders, but I have had discussions with people who do think that

FWIW there are hundreds of mosques in London.

Why not ? Muslims have been living in London since Elizabeth I. England would happily have had an alliance with the Ottoman empire. The main problem being that the Ottoman empire was vast, huge and very very rich, and Elizabethan England an absolute nobody in the world.

Sorry, I forgot. Are we allowed to do real history on this thread. Or do I have to run it past the censor first ?

@SerendipityJaneIk you’re plain speaking and you’re on mn in the UK free to say most things (but you’d stop at before I in the alphabet) what do you think about the current interpretation of religion.

Ie if you were to choose where to live - especially if you have DDs - would you choose here with all its many faults or Iran?

I disagree. It’s difficult to stop people ‘shouting at each other’ about this, but equally (if not more) difficult to get people to talk about this properly. Worryingly, this includes politicians.

When communication breaks down in this manner, civil unrest is virtually guaranteed.

That's what happens when you take it down to an individual level. My grandfather also spent his life down the pits in the valleys. What's that got to do with me?

I know it has fuck all to do with Islam. I am not denigrating Islam as a religion. It does, however, have something to do with concerns about unregulated immigration because there are potentially dangerous elements who can do serious harm, among all the genuine asylum seekers.

That's the elephant in the room, I am nervous about spelling it out on a thread where I'm likely to be called racist. If you knew my life, you'd know I am not.

😂😂😂An 'interesting' analysis.
You're seriously deluded and one of many helping to lead us into the abyss ffs.

What you mean as opposed to the rank hateful racist remarks bout brits above? And what is it we're supposed to last on MN? The collective bullying or the gang together assaults of people you don't know or ever try to get to know?..grow up.