Do you believe there will be a civil war?

[exhaustedandwholly]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I wonder if others feel the same. With everything going on, from the arrival of illegal migrants in small boats to a government that seems powerless, and with Farage gaining popularity because people are fed up, it feels like tension is rising across the country.

People are frustrated. You try to raise concerns and are instantly labelled a racist or bigot, even when your worries are about integration, safety, and national identity, not race. It feels like any honest conversation is being shut down.

There are parts of the UK where people who were born and raised here no longer feel at home. In some areas, if you are not part of the dominant local community, you can feel completely out of place or even unsafe walking alone at night. That is not right in your own country.

It is not just about people coming from Muslim-majority countries or those arriving illegally. There are also large numbers of Eastern Europeans, including Bulgarians, Romanians, and Russians. Many work hard and contribute, but there are also communities forming where people keep to themselves, speak no English, and make no effort to integrate. Some of these areas are experiencing rising antisocial behaviour, crime, and a breakdown of community life.

You can find videos online showing the state of some of these areas, with rubbish piling up, people ignoring the rules, and no sign of enforcement. It looks lawless, and it often is. But speaking about it honestly is considered of limits.

I live next to a Muslim family and they are wonderful people. Friendly, respectful, hardworking. So this is not about judging individuals. This is about a wider pattern where people are arriving, not integrating, and changing the fabric of our country in ways no one voted for.

We are a Christian country with our own traditions, values, and way of life. Why is it seen as wrong to want to preserve that? If we moved to Saudi Arabia, Bulgaria, or Russia, we would be expected to adapt to their culture. So why is it unacceptable to ask the same here?

The anger and division in this country are growing. I do not want unrest or conflict, but I cannot ignore what feels like a serious shift. When ordinary people feel ignored for too long, things eventually boil over.

Is anyone else feeling this? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it anymore?

👏👏👏👏👏

On mn though? You’d mock Islam as the pp did re Christianity?

I think that’s the difference. I doubt what can be posted is the same.

Prior to 2018 hardly anyone attempted to cross the channel in small boats, most of the young men in the Calais camps were attempting the crossing by getting onto lorries, trains and through the tunnel.
The UK ramped up its check's and tightened security at the border in France. The people smugglers came up with an alternative method of transport, just as dangerous for people wanting to get to the UK, but actually geographically harder to police than one small defined area of the border.
I think the numbers increasing so quickly, is what has put the authorities on the back foot, approx 500 people in 2018, so only 7 years ago to 37,000 in 2024. I am fairly sure the Conservative government were warned that this scenario might happen when they plugged the gaps at the ports, but I don't think anyone expected the levels we are now experiencing ?

I don't know what the solutions may be to prevent small boat crossings, I don't think there will be just one, I think there will probably need to be a suite of measures, to make any discernible difference.
As for the people already here, well speeding up processes would be a starting point. The hotel issue needs to be addressed too, but what are the options ? Larger scale solutions cause nimby public outcry, (using old military sites), do small scale solutions make flight risk more likely, I don't know ? If people have relatives in the UK, and this is often quoted as a reason for them making the journey, could they stay with those relatives instead of in hotels ? Maybe that already happens ?

It was the Islamic world that was distilling perfumes, mapping the skies (a massive aid to seafaring) and writing rhyming poetry in cities with air conditioning and religious tolerance whilst most of Europe was shovelling shit.

Would you switch this terminology around? Would you post that?

I see you’re at shovelling shit stage and poetry stage.

Well you sound like a right barrell of laughs!!
Could you purse your lips any tighter?

I don't mock religion on mumsnet, because I'm not someone who goes on about sky fairies - no matter what the flavour. But do I challenge the Islamic faithful in the same way I do those of any other faith if they post? Abso-bloody-lutely. No belief is exempt from challenge and scrutiny - my own atheism included.

I don't like people mocking any faith in insulting terms. It's disrespectful. But honestly, compared to the disgusting racist tropes being posted on these threads (and condoned by both MNHQ and yourself) about Muslim men, crime committed by foreigners, The Great Replacement bollocks, a bit of mockery pales into insignificance.

It is a matter of historical fact that at the time mentioned by @SerendipityJane , the Islamic world was far, far, far ahead of the Western Medieval world in terms of culture, literature and technology. Posting this is done in counterweight to the hordes of people on threads like these who portray Islam and its culture as purely one of raving religious fanatics who still live in the Stone Age. When you start a thread like this one, you're in a glass house and you're throwing stones. Expect to get some back.

I don’t think it does. If @MistressoftheDarkSidepost was written about Islam I think it’d be gone, perhaps even the poster.

Or the shovelling shit post below if reversed, that too could take a deletion or worse.

I will happily mock religion if it is being used as an excuse to outsource conscience or to justify inhumanity.

My limited knowledge of Christianity, Judaism and Islam suggests they all say we should be nice to one another above and before everything. And it's hard to get cross with that.

And would you use the same tone and language for Islam?

No. I don't recognise anything you describe and the people attacking refuges in hotels are nasty bullies who'd be the first to plead bad backs or 'mental health' if they were actually expected to enlist for any kind of active service.

The same tone as in this post? Of course. I don't see that there is a problem with my tone - I sees a spade, I calls it a spade, as it were.

Ok happily mock. I’ll see when you get to Islam as I’m interested in the response from mnhq.

This is not true either! 🤦♀️

Arriving here by a small boat is only considered to be an illegal entry if you subsequently then evade immigration control. If you’re escorted from the sea to land by the coastguard etc, then you’re treated as a new arrival. If you make your own way to land and you immediately seek out the authorities, that’s not illegal entry either. It doesn’t suddenly become illegal entry depending whether or not someone claims asylum, or whether their claim is subsequently refused.

It’s in the Act on the .gov website if you want to fact check.

I'd like to see a photo of that sign.

Ok same tone for Islam, I’ll read with interest.

Tricky, as it doesn’t exist!

What if I don't have a pick list and never "get to" Islam ? I might be working alphabetically. And you wait till I unload my Gnoticism material. And I suspect some Hindu folk won't be happy either.

Yes I can see you might not. Even for someone as plain speaking and happy to mock mnhq are pretty consistent.

"I blame the education system, I went to a non church of England school in the 90s and definitely finished my education with the subconscious belief that 'minority' cultures were of much higher value than my own which was basically a complete non-entity."

What were you taught at school that devalued British culture?

What aspects of British culture would you like people to celebrate and embrace more?

My parents were both from white working class British homes. Both raised in council houses and both had left school at 15. My dad read the entire works of Charles Dickens in early adulthood. He and his brothers and father (who had a blue collar job at Ford) attended lectures in history and politics at the local working men's college after work. My mother knew lots of traditional English songs, read and memorised poetry by the great English poets.

Do you think many people today from similar backgrounds who leave school early still value our literary and musical traditions and culture?

Or is that not what you. mean when you talk about British culture?

Yes, it pretty much is the same.

Any immigrant is simply a person who has gone to a different country with the intention of remaining there permanently, irrespective of the reason. So that covers you, asylum seekers and all those Brits in other countries who prefer to call themselves ex pats.

What are you talking about? I'm not middle class. All I was saying is that Brits abroad show very little respect. So why expect it? I'm surrounded by British immigrants who can't speak the local language. Surrounded. They stick together, use British tradesmen, open their own shops and cafés, seek mefical care in English. There are millions of Brits in Europe who haven't integrated. So, why expect better in the UK? We've spent centuries colonising other countries and are now outraged that it's happening to us. Tough shit, I say. I don't even know what it is we're supposed to be saving.

You’re British then, as you say ‘us’. And you want Britain to be overrun? By whom exactly.

ETA and you moved to Spain and you’re annoyed others have too?

The Reform voting folks on this thread - what would you like to see?

Fartage is talking about deporting people to foreign torture gulags in El Salvador. What are your thoughts on that?

Do you want mass repatriation of recently arrived immigrants, including those who've arrived legally?

Do you want us to stop offering refuge to people fleeing oppression and torture in repressive regimes?

Do you want to refuse asylum seekers - including those who have a valid claim - of any state provided medical care, shelter and any support from the state?

What are you hoping for?