Do you believe there will be a civil war?

[exhaustedandwholly]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I wonder if others feel the same. With everything going on, from the arrival of illegal migrants in small boats to a government that seems powerless, and with Farage gaining popularity because people are fed up, it feels like tension is rising across the country.

People are frustrated. You try to raise concerns and are instantly labelled a racist or bigot, even when your worries are about integration, safety, and national identity, not race. It feels like any honest conversation is being shut down.

There are parts of the UK where people who were born and raised here no longer feel at home. In some areas, if you are not part of the dominant local community, you can feel completely out of place or even unsafe walking alone at night. That is not right in your own country.

It is not just about people coming from Muslim-majority countries or those arriving illegally. There are also large numbers of Eastern Europeans, including Bulgarians, Romanians, and Russians. Many work hard and contribute, but there are also communities forming where people keep to themselves, speak no English, and make no effort to integrate. Some of these areas are experiencing rising antisocial behaviour, crime, and a breakdown of community life.

You can find videos online showing the state of some of these areas, with rubbish piling up, people ignoring the rules, and no sign of enforcement. It looks lawless, and it often is. But speaking about it honestly is considered of limits.

I live next to a Muslim family and they are wonderful people. Friendly, respectful, hardworking. So this is not about judging individuals. This is about a wider pattern where people are arriving, not integrating, and changing the fabric of our country in ways no one voted for.

We are a Christian country with our own traditions, values, and way of life. Why is it seen as wrong to want to preserve that? If we moved to Saudi Arabia, Bulgaria, or Russia, we would be expected to adapt to their culture. So why is it unacceptable to ask the same here?

The anger and division in this country are growing. I do not want unrest or conflict, but I cannot ignore what feels like a serious shift. When ordinary people feel ignored for too long, things eventually boil over.

Is anyone else feeling this? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it anymore?

No.
Because people have social media, and are too fat, thick, and fucking lazy to actually do anything other than write bollocks on advertising sites.

Oh I understand. I’m pointing out why it was irrelevant. That’s me enlightening you, dear.

But that would be because more white men , per capita may give very different results. Plus no other country would want or take a man convicted of rape etc yet we are as no papers or tracibility etc

Ok, well at least in you’ll understand what everyone was referring to now.

Even if it was the case why does it matter? Just because you're not white doesn't make you not British. And just because you're Asian or black doesn't mean you're Muslim?? (Which is the comment the PP was responding to).

I have lots of Asian friends and most of them aren't religious and some are Christian. Most black people I'm friends with are Christian. Most of these guys are 2nd/3rd generation and indistinguishable in their hobbies/interest/lifestyle from their white peers.

Also my son is mixed race so wouldn't be classed as white, but he's being brought up as British as you can get. So what exactly is your point or problem? Because it sounds like you're saying that people who aren't 100% white are less culturally British?

And the ex pat community is often disliked by the locals for those very reasons? Therefore its also what some people have a problem with here.
I personally can’t fathom why you would move to spain and not learn spanish etc, even when i just go on holiday , I at least learn , please , thank you , excuse me etc , some basic polite phrases.

This^

People are being silenced and young people are turning into walkovers and robots as they are not being educated correctly at school/college how to think and how to have a different opposing point of view without being accused of all the 'ists'. There is no healthy debate anymore. ' I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' is a dying concept in this country (and many others in the western world) and we do NOT have free speech anymore, many many people are now silenced and any dissent is labelled as as an 'ist'.
The older generations know exactly what's going on but they are ostracised, labelled as racist, right wing facists, not respected, agist remarks thrown at them, ignored and their wisdom and experience are not valued.

History has already been rewritten.
I agree with the post. A civil war won't happen. Our backbone has been deliberately destroyed. It's already too late.

I have thought this too!

Don't forget the lack of toilet paper.

@Ellen2shoes
They are not ‘illegal’ immigrants. Most immigrants are granted legal status. They are only illegal once they have been processed but that process has been sabotaged by over a decade of Tory incompetence resulting in an unnecessary backlog of claims rendering the claimants unable to work and contribute to society in the meantime

I know I bang on about this on every immigration thread, but if I can just get a few people to understand how irregular migration works, it’s worth it!

The ‘illegal’ part refers to a person’s method of entry. If they’ve bypassed immigration control (for instance, they’ve entered in the back of a lorry) then they’re an illegal entrant under immigration laws. That’s an offence punishable by a prison sentence, a fine or both. It’s irrelevant whether or not they claim asylum or if they’re subsequently granted some form of leave. Their method of entry doesn’t change. Because the UK is a signatory of the Refugee Convention, they recognise that there are no legal routes to get here to claim asylum, so it’s dealt with administratively rather than going down the prosecution route.

That doesn’t mean that every one is an illegal entrant though. If someone is in a small boat and gets rescued by the coastguard etc, they’re considered new arrivals and not illegal entrants. That status doesn’t change either. Same as if they arrive on a beach and either sit down to wait for Border Force to turn up, or call the police etc. They are not considered to be illegal entrants. They would only become illegal entrants if they evaded Border Force.

This is all set out in the Act on the Home Office website if you want to have a read of it.

@Nasrine
If those people are found not to have a valid claim to asylum they can be deported for entering the UK illegally Not exactly. If their asylum claim is refused and they’ve had any appeals they were entitled to refused, they are administratively removed, not deported. Deportation is very different, far more serious and is not used for removing your average failed asylum seeker. Also, they are removed as failed asylum seekers with no other legal basis of stay in the UK. Their method of entry, be it legal or illegal, is completely unconnected to the decision to remove them.

Sometimes I really wish what you say about people being silenced was true, but every single day on this forum the extreme right wing just won't shut up.

Is this not just the "your right to swing your fists ends if they hit my face" thing?

So it would be wrong if someone was preventing you from living your own life according to your culture. But that goes both ways, 'your culture' in that case can't be 'not ever seeing anyone who isn't the same culture as me' - if you get to pick how you live then everyone gets to pick how they live too, and you can't impose your lifestyle rules on each other.

This is also a different issue to antisocial behaviour in particular streets or towns, which is likely to be multi-faceted - to function as a united society everyone has to have a basic understanding and belief that they truly are a united society and a willingness to follow the law, and there are a lot of factors that can disrupt those feelings.

What do you mean exactly by the "'extreme right wing"? Can you quote something?

@exhaustedandwholly 'you can feel completely ... unsafe walking alone at night' – that's pretty much been womens' experience from the dawn of time.

Not, in my area, which has received waves of migrants from different areas over several centuries. We are mostly happy, enjoy each other's fantastic cooking and culture and support those in need. I think people are mostly more tolerant.

Why don't you have a look at pictures of the starving coming out from Gaza today and think about what constitutes a problem.

I don't believe there will be a civil war. I do believe since covid there has been a lot of conspiracies on all sorts of things. Often spread from countries or individuals who wish to destabilise our country and way of life.

I do believe that ALL people should follow our rules and laws. That includes the people attacking the police and members of our community.

I do believe that immigrants should fully integrate in our society or go back to where they came from. As should the British Xpat communities I have encountered on my travels.

XPat and immigrants are the same they seek to have a better way of life, more money( think UK citizens who work in Saudi or Cayman) pay less taxes. They still want to celebrate their culture, food, rrligion and language.These are good things but not to recreate little Britain or a little Pakistan or anywhete else. This should not be to the detriment of the country you have choosen to live in.

You should integrate with the country you now call home. That means bring fluent in the language, celebrating their festivals as well as your own, treating all with respect as equals. If you can't do that then go back to where you came from. I dont just mean immigrants to here but immigrants from UK to other countries.

Be careful what you read, check your sources. A few months ago there was a big problem in a town near me. Across social media it was reported that a girl had been touch up and chased by Afghani men. People were up in arms. It turn out that the person who said her daughter was attacked didn't exist. Not on electoral role, the school named didn't have a child enrolled by that name. No child had gone to out of hours/A&E as rrported.There had been no report to the police. The supposed friends of the mother didn't exist.
This could very easily have spilled over into violence.

I often find it is immigrants who don't want more immigrants. Or only immigrants who are from their country.

Also, I dont believe that the education system takes away aspiration of poor English people. I have taught in deprived areas and have been amazed by the lack of ambition and aspiration from parents for their children. More so in the last 20 years. Some don't believe in education. I have run classes for parents to help them understand the changes in school curriculum. Some parents want to their children to do well and support schools and education. Some children want to escape and see education as a tool. We all are influenced by our parents to some degree if they have aspiration, ambition a love of learning some of it will rub off.
Very sadly, not all parents value these things. They are happy for their children to stay in similar jobs, or no jobs, places. The lack of engagement with wider society, ambition stifles their children's development and future prospects. The world and society constantly changes.

Stop talking about civil war and use your time and energy to make our country a better place for all our children.!

This "aspiration" thing was Blair's mistake.

Aspiration is different to motivation. Not everyone needs to aspire for their lives to be happy.

What I am seeing is that white English men have finally had enough of the racial hatred directed at them, and the public sector acceptance of it being directed at their children has created a deep schism your "stop talking" will make no difference to whatsoever.

You know what I'm referring to

Eastern Europeans? Really?
1.They ARE legal with Settled/Pre-Settled

1. They DO work (I'm Eastern European, 14 years here, I don't know a single one who doesn't work).

I couldn’t agree more. It’s the no debate approach which has put us where we are (exactly the same as with the trans rights issue as @Marmiteontoastgirliesays) and the consequences of this will be profound - absolutely paving the way to a Reform victory.

This is what I am noticing now too. A few ad campaigns recently have used a white model, like the recent American Eagle one, i know thats a non UK example. And the outrage that they would dare to use a white woman really shocked me. Until recently I had been quite unaware of the racism that has grown up against the indigenous people of this country, but once you see it you cannot unsee it. For a long time now its been an unspoken rule that to celebrate British culture too blatantly is insensitive to other cultures, hence 'winter lights celebrations' instead of Christmas etc. But now it's almost as if white people should be not seen and not heard. A black British man with a large platform on insta recently was chortling about how English people 'have no culture' and I was in complete disbelief at the comments, it was mostly white people cheering him on and agreeing with him! I blame the education system, I went to a non church of England school in the 90s and definitely finished my education with the subconscious belief that 'minority' cultures were of much higher value than my own which was basically a complete non-entity. The tide is turning though, our Liberal, tolerant, welcoming mindset has been seriously abused.

I’m sick to death of people bringing American bullshit talking points over here. No we are not about to have a civil war. FFS, get off the internet.

I seriously wish we could block American media, socials and news from this country. Their violent influence has been utterly corrosive.

Mothers who stage a peaceful sit down protest because they worry about the safety of their daughters?

No one is saying that. All the people you are referring to are products of the old, slower times of immigration when a high proportion did integrate. Surely you must see we are worlds away from that now? In fact it is the people you are referring to that often see clearer than many white British, that it is absolute madness for us to have the entire worlds 'underclass' pouring in, as if we didn't have a big enough underclass of our own already.

Shameful comment. You'd never refer to Islam as the worshiping of a sky fairy. Typical mumsnet sycophant. Sneering at the heritage of the west while bowing and scraping to anything from the east.