To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

[SharpMintReader]

The school-gate groups and WhatsApp chats often look less like support networks and more like exclusive cliques. AIBU to think “mum friendships” are too often politics in disguise?

I like some of the other mums (and dads) in my kid's class more than others. I tend to talk more often to the ones I already knew from before the kids started school. Am I in a clique?

Do you think they are talking about you in the group chat?

No it was a response to the person who quoted you and said that people who disagree with the OP must be part of the cliques thenselves. I just coincidently said 'wrong side' (of the hierarchy) it wasn't a reference to being on the wrong side of an individual who has it in for you, which is a different thing from merely not being included in a friendship group.

Quite clearly you are, @MoreDangerousThanAWomanScorned . Shame on you. You are not allowed to talk to people you already know, you must actively go around the gate and gather everyone up for a group discussion, making sure everyone is included. And if you don't do that, you're a Queen Bee bitch.

Absolutely barking.

I really don’t understand when friendship groups supposedly become cliques. I don’t look at school pick up/drop off times as a social event so I don’t view other mums having friendship groups as a negative and don’t think everyone has to be friends just because our kids are at the same school.

Just imagining everyone standing in a huge circle and having an allotted number of sentences they are allowed to utter in order that everyone gets the same social look in…

I disagree with 95% of what the OP has said. But, I think there can sometimes be an impact when these friendships become so tightknit that it excludes other children - I haven't experienced it myself but I have met women whose child finds themselves very upset because at school they play happily with Mary but because Mary's mum is friends with Johnny and Jenny's mums, Mary, Johnny and Jenny do a lot together and the other child is excluded and playdates are not responded to etc. It could, of course, just be that Mary isn't as good a friend as the child thinks, but that's not hte way it seems.

The only other time I've seen this sort of weird clique thing vs an actual friendship group was a few years ago when a medium sized group of friends started working on a big fundraising project for the school. Lots of people were keen to be part of it and to contribute, but they would only allow people in their group to take part, or by selective invitation. But there was a high expectation that when the event took place, everyone would come and bring their children, and spend money, and lavish them with praise.

Interestingly, they did it for a few years but the backlash got worse and worse, they raised less money every year and eventually they stopped. So it didn't work out for them!

Agree @Frogs88 so where does this idea come from that drop off / pick up is the time you make all your friends?

I think previous posters who said they suspect many women ditch their old friends when they get married or have a baby are spot on - 5 years down the line their old friends have moved on, their "baby" is at school and they suddenly realise they have not as many social connections as they would like, then get very jealous and insecure about people who have friends. Either that, or they are people who have never had a solid friend group developed through their own school days, Uni, work or hobbies and think that when their own child starts school it will be miraculously different.

@Chompingatthebeat

So if you don't notice cliques youre a queen bee bitch basically? Theres a whole world of people in between just living their normal lives as best they can

I know. It's so rude and entitled to assume that anyone with any basic social skills, or anyone who doesn't waste time worrying about the social groupings at school is a "queen bee bitch".

If someone is an overbearing dick and tries to throw their weight around in any social or professional environment you just walk away from them. It's not that hard. In the vast majority of case though the so-called "queen bee bitch" is just an extrovert, someone socially confident or someone who does a lot of the social organising and is resented by the people who haven't thought to do the same.

:-). I love your honesty. Many feel the same.

I went to work part time after school drop offs so didn't always do pick ups, my in laws did some. When I did collect I would try and arrive at the last minute so no standing around. Later on, at 'big' school, my husband dropped off and son eventually made his own way home. I wasn't unfriendly at all, I got to know some other parents through the children's friendships but I can't do superficial chit chat and gossip.

Cliques obviously do exist in all spheres of life. I think that the playground amplifies emotions because your children are also involved. Obviously there are people you get on with more than others. I had friends who were school mums because our children were friends. We might not have ever spent time together if not. Some people engineer their children's social lives so that they get to spend time with their own friends. If you are a SAHM you can feel pretty isolated, so social interaction feels more important, even if you know that these people aren't going to be BFFs and/or if your children are being excluded, because you aren't part of the clique, then that can feel like you are letting them down.

Oh no, I shall self-flagellate.

Just to check, can I talk to my next door neighbour even though our kids are in the same class without inviting everyone else, or is that cliquey too? I just want to check because I don't want to be a Queen Bee, but we do sometimes talk about the bin collections?

Out of interest, what makes your group of three different from the other groups of ‘insecure 16 year olds’?

The others may well have been friends (hence going to the pub together etc) because their kids were playing together - exactly the same way as you met your gang?

@KassandraOfSparta @MoreDangerousThanAWomanScorned I might print a T-shirt saying "Queen Bee Bitch" and wear it to school.

Just so the paranoid types know I'm the head of a conspiracy to exclude them and socially disadvantage their kids.

Much easier than failing to smile at the school gates at pick-up.

My kids are in their 20s. Just back from a trip to the sun with a group of mums i met when my eldest was 3 and at nursery.

I also have a similar group who still text daily even though the kids we met through are at university now.

So they dont inevitably descend into anything.

Some of the comments sneering about making friends are quite mean. I had a lovely social life with uni and work friends then met nct friends after having a baby but we then moved to a new city two hours drive away when dd was 2. So yes I wanted to make new local friends not that I “hadn’t kept up with my networks” I wanted like minded women in same boat who lived nearby to go to park with and drink wine after school on Fridays! Fortunately found a brilliant group in new city and 16 years on still all friends

Some are genuine friendships and connections.

Some are cliques that only want people who mirror them, or people who can benefit them in some way.

As I've gotten older, I see that many of my peers, colleagues and even siblings are obsessed with image (they'd never admit it and I'm not sure they're even consciously aware)...but they only want to be seen or socialise with certain people.

Its social currency to socialise with certain people.

This does exist. My secondary school was toxic, and my place of work is equally toxic.

Aibu to think threads about school gate cliques, are just thinly veiled misogyny

Of course and there's nothing wrong with wanting to make new friends in a new environment.

But a surprising number of people seem to expect that school will provide them with a ready made social network (without having to actually do much themselves) and then they get shitty when they find that some mums already have existing friendships. It's as if everyone is expected to be on a totally level playing field all the time: it's not realistic. A lot of mums will have pre-existing relationships dating back to having kids at primary/nursery, for example.

Obviously you're more likely to speak to someone you already know in an unfamiliar situation than to a completely stranger. That doesn't mean you're in a "bitchy clique": it's just using what existing social advantages you have. Nothing wrong with it. People who are completely new to the school/area are always going to have to work a bit harder. And sometimes that's daunting but it doesn't oblige other people to ignore their existing relationships in order to create some parity with everyone.

Quite.

"Women With Children Become Friends" Shocker! Read the alarming details on Page 6.

Women are not required to be universally benevolent in case someone feels intimidated by groups of friends.

I was just wondering how all these parents were picking up their kids after school. Surely most parents of school aged children both work? It’s much better just to have friends outwith school that you have a genuine connection with rather than just people who happen to have kids the same age.

What is actually wrong with some people being friends for a short while and drifting apart afterwards? There's only so much time in your life, are you supposed to stop making friends after a while? Or wait until one dies to create a vacancy?

Yes, people generally need friends, but is there actually specific harm from having friends who suit you for a particular phase of life and not after?

I’m not part of any school friendships or cliques, these friendships fall apart as soon as children have some falling out and these friendships always include gossiping about school families and staff. I just say hi bye and go my way

I’ve got a higher degree in English but I’m buggered if I know what any of this bollocks means

Delores I think if it’s a group the op is welcomed into it’s a friendship group if not it’s a nasty clique with a queen bee!

I am a traveller but you are just a tourist type thing.