To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

[SharpMintReader]

The school-gate groups and WhatsApp chats often look less like support networks and more like exclusive cliques. AIBU to think “mum friendships” are too often politics in disguise?

Not really. So many experience the vileness and how unhealthy they are. And don’t get me started on the competitive social engineering re their children who then flounder when they have to make friendships themselves at secondary . Some of the worst adult behaviour I’ve seen is at the school gate, it’s literally mean girl school behaviour all over again. The leaving out of anybody different, the gossip, the competitiveness….

Newsflash-school groups are not friendship groups. They are competitive parent groups- social and academic. The only friends I kept after primary were those who didn’t fit in, who were on the periphery. Some really strong interesting women. Best day ever was the last primary school run.

Incomprehensible word salad.

Access to what?

Parties? Play dates?

It can only be about social hierarchy if you go along with it. What makes the women in the clique socially superior in your eyes? Why are you more interested in them than the other mums who are also 'excluded' from the group? By standing on the fringes of a group calling them exclusionary and thinking of them as the group to be part of, you are perpetuating the idea that some mums are better than others and more desirable as friends.

I’m sure Op is using all the answers she gets here elsewhere.

I don't think I'd set out to join a 'support network' at school - if there's a group that does that, it's probably the one that looks the cliquiest to someone who's not in it, because it's more likely to be a friendship group formed among local mums when they were pregnant and doing an NCT class or similar. A friend was telling me that one of our local schools is a bit cliquey, but when you looked more closely, it was just that that particular year group had a lot of second children in it whose parents had made friends when they had their first. So the children had grown up playing together and the parents were friends already, and probably didn't need more friends so weren't going out of their way to make them. A bit annoying if you don't have any friends and are looking for them, but they weren't doing anything wrong.

That’s fair - not everyone wants or needs to engage deeply at the school gate. The issue I’m raising is when certain groups do form and end up being exclusionary or gatekeeping info or opportunities. That’s when it stops being harmless socialising and starts looking like a clique.

@CoolBath

Do explain. Or are you simply someone who struggles with friendship and who has decided it’s easier to blame other people?

Invariably these threads are started by bitter people who have let their own friendship groups fall by the wayside when they have kids and are jealous and triggered at other women making friends. A lot of women on Mumsnet seem not to bother with friends after they've found a bloke and had a couple of kids (usually citing "drama") and then get huffy when they realise other mums still have friends. They then expect school to provide a ready-made social environment for them via the mums and become enraged when it doesn't go to plan.

But exclusion is a normal part of life for everyone. I have a lovely group of mum friends, but there are other groups of mum friends that I am not part of, that definitely wouldn’t want me if I tried to include myself. When I do school run I see lots of groups of people who naturally flock together. We can’t all stand in a massive circle!

What information or opportunities are they gate keeping @SharpMintReader ?

The difference is in intent and behaviour. A close-knit group doesn’t exclude others on purpose, doesn’t gossip or gatekeep information and isn’t performative in who’s included. A clique, on the other hand, thrives on hierarchy, control and exclusion. It’s less about natural connection and more about status or dominance.

There’s clearly a backstory here OP so why not spit it out as no one here is agreeing with you.

That feels a bit personal. I’m not talking about individual failures - just pointing out a pattern I’ve observed in different settings. There’s a valid conversation to be had about how some social groups can drift into exclusion or subtle status games, even when they start as natural friendships.

@SharpMintReader

But when those groups dominate a setting like the school gate and shape who’s included, informed or supported, it’s not just harmless bonding anymore. It does affect other parents. The issue isn’t friendship, it’s when access, influence and inclusion start to hinge on being in the inner circle.

But that's life. Any social network in life by definition involves some exclusion because not everyone in the world can be included? Men do this all the time at work: they have drinking groups, golf groups or cycling groups or football groups. Women do it in other social settings (hobbies/volunteering). Why is it considered legitimate in these circumstances but not at school?

Instead of tying yourself up in knots worrying about why you've been "excluded" you'd do yourself (and ultimately your kids) a favour working a bit on your own social awareness and social skills and figuring out how to work with other people without imposing this paranoid mindset on the world. Other people are allowed to form friendships/social groups which don't include you. You have to make peace with this.

What make school mum friendships groups is the children and the effect it can have in the children

which is why it is so different from any other friendship groups formed elsewhere

theres a lot of people that are part of groups or cliques that wish they weren’t
but it pays to get along to get along

so many fake friendships
that don’t last past primary

so I’d say don’t sweat it
get along to get along as much as you can
and invest time and energy in your real friends
it’s only a phase that will pass

What kind of information or opportunities are they gate keeping?

What info are they 'gatekeeping'? What are they excluding you from?
Your words here are highly emotive so agree with pp HUGE backstory!

A friendship group of Mums who happened to meet at school gate "thrives on hierarchy, control and exclusion. It’s less about natural connection and more about status or dominance" ?!

Blimey, sounds like a conspiracy novel

Sometimes, yes but also information, reminders, help with school stuff or even social support during tricky moments. If one group becomes the default hub for all that, it can create an uneven dynamic. That’s what I’m getting at.

@Isthisfairorwhat

so many fake friendships
that don’t last past primary

But that's true in all walks of life. Most work friendships don't survive after people have left that employer. It's just called being sociable.

No one is entitled to a friendship. A lot of social interaction is to some extent self-serving. But that doesn't mean that there's something insidious or cynical about people bonding and trying to get on while they are together.

You're sending your kids a very damaging message if you teach them they are entitled to be friends with everyone.

Don’t forget gate keeping of information and opportunities. State secrets, I assume.

School holidays. This means it’s either the insecure mums feeling left out, or children looking to shit stir for creative writing courses.

even among mums.

God forbid that women who've given birth act the same as every other human being on the planet. The very cheeky of them.

Friendships happen. Some are close and supportive, some are a loose affiliation of people who have to be at the same place everyday.

Just because they aren't interested in being your friend doesn't make them a clique. Not everyone will like you. Plenty of people don't like me, I'm sure, and the world keeps turning.

What's usually going on in these situations is that there's a group of women you have decided are the 'right' people for you to be friends with. Not because you like them (you see them as exclusionary and cliquey, right?) But because YOU have decided they are superior. Maybe because they are wealthy, cool, throw good parties, have DC who you would like your child to access, or whatever. Unfortunately they do not agree that you should be in their friendship circle, so your social ambition is thwarted. You feel that you and your DC are missing out on the 'best' social stuff. So you become resentful that the group exists at all, if it doesn't include you. This is pointless as it will just continue to make you upset. You need instead to accept the situation and work on building your own friendships and create social opportunities for yourself with other people.

I am friends with two other mothers. We met through a toddler group and our children went to school together. The kids are now 22. We are friends, not a clique. I'm not sure how these school gate cliques you have identified operate in a different way to a group of friends op.