To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

[SharpMintReader]

The school-gate groups and WhatsApp chats often look less like support networks and more like exclusive cliques. AIBU to think “mum friendships” are too often politics in disguise?

This isn't limited to women, so you either have a sexist or very narrow view.

From observing males, they have cliques, they jostle for position, they compete for attention.

I find it strange when people only focus on women, as if it's solely women's job to be inclusive and kind.

Some lovely mums over the years. I know what you mean op. Some adult women give off mean girl vibes. Hard break into hobby groups too if they know each other. Whatsapp groups can be helpful for school stuff too.

@Zov

I think quite a number of women have experienced this. You can see the ones on this thread who haven't - and are very likely part of said 'cliques.' You can see the toxic comments coming out from a few posters ... Comments like 'oh you struggle to make friends so you blame other people?' So rude.

Sorry if you think its rude, but the hard truth is that if you insist on seeing everyone else's friendships as a conspiracy against you, the problem is with you. It's nothing to do with whether you're introverted or extroverted. It's how you frame other people's lives and how you perceive your entitlement to be in their lives.

Part of being an adult is accepting that not everyone will like you, that you're not always going to be good at everything or invited to everything. That doesn't mean you're not likeable or liked, it means you're not in this particular group. Failing to make peace with this and lashing out at people for forming friendship groups which don't include you suggests that you haven't properly grasped this.

It's not all about you.

If you’re lucky enough to be “popular” and included then obviously you don’t reflect or care how it’s like for others who aren’t.

Let's break this down and see how ridiculous it is. There are 25-30 children in the average primary school class. If 2 or 3 of the mums decide to go to Costa after drop off, do they have to invite the other 27 too, so they don't feel left out? And if not everyone is available, then just not go? What about women who already know each other through older kids, swimming, Rainbows, gymnastics - are they supposed to not talk to each other because, you know, clique? What about the people who just aren't interested in talking - and there are plenty of those on MN. Headphones in, hood up, "don't talk to me" vibes.

It's always the socially awkward, lacking in confidence, anxious people who start wanging on about cliques and exclusion and you know what? It isn't other people's problems to solve your lack of perceived popularity for you. In ANY situation you have to put yourself out there, say yes to invitations to events you might not be terribly keen on, proactively start conversations rather than having this weird expectation that everyone else should be making the effort to include you.

Too right. It's very very sad that some people are stuck at this stage of development. It's like, what was their life between being at school themselves and now doing it all again as parents?

Yes! Once you spot it, they stick out like a sore thumb.

Generic, weirdly structured, forced empathy - there will always be things like ‘fair take and I agree…’ and 3 word usernames, no history…

The average class has 30 children so up to 60 parents. Any group of that size, especially thrown together randomly, is going to have politics. It's also not very comfortable to confront someone who might have offended or upset you when you know you're going to have to continue to see them every day for years and your child is going to be with their child, so any tensions are going to sit there awkwardly.

It's not at all surprising that everyone will have their own groups that they get on better with and others will be a bit left out.

Try being a 26 yo Stepmum jumping off the bus a playground full of 40+ yo friends of your husband's ex climbing out of Range Rovers. It's not nice being excluded but let's be honest, I had nothing in common with those women and none of us would have stayed friends.

🤣

@Zov

Tell me you're in a school mum friendship clique without telling me you're in a school mum friendship clique.

Why in God's name would I have to apologise to you for having friends?

Yes. Plenty of times. I don't live in a rough area though, I live in a nice middle class area. So I see no fighting or arguments, just people happily drinking all night, and walking home together laughing and singing. (Men and women.) I definitely see nasty little cliques in the women in the village though - particularly the school mum groups and in the Church. I see little - in fact none really - when it comes to men.

Why do people on here get so salty when someone critisizes women? It's not against the law you know, and women are not perfect, and they ARE a lot more toxic when they fall out. Vengeful and spiteful. Not all women are like this of course, but are more likely to be like this when the friendship breaks down. They are also far more likely to have a friend, then make a new friend, and leave the first friend out. Men don't do this.

I didn't ask you to apologise for anything. But thanks for confirming that you are in a clique!

Also they stop posting once someone calls them out for using AI, even if they were posting heaps before that.

😂

Or perhaps some of us simply reject the idea that some groups are better than others? If you refuse to buy into the thinking that there's an aspirational crowd which you'll either be part of or excluded from, and focus on the qualities of other people, cultivating friendships with those you like and who like you, rather than those you think are perceived as superior, then you get a different perspective. If you persist with the thinking that some people are superior, for no valid reason, and focus only on trying to get them to include you (so you can be a superior person too) you've only yourself to blame if you end up on the wrong side of the hierarchy you are creating.

I never understand why if people are bitchy and horrible etc why anyone wants to then join that group. If they actively exclude people they don’t like for whatever reason why do you care?

Come on now. I don't even particularly care about the OPs post. I'm just tired of all these fake AI content generating posts.

I am always on the outside - of everything. It is the sort of person I am. I accept that. People are polite to me, as I am to them, but rarely do they take to me. Again, I accept that. So from that standpoint I say, why on earth shouldn't they form cliques? Every friendship group is a clique, from one perspective. It's a shame if people don't want to "play" with you, but you can't make them. If they are unpleasant (as I understand what you may mean is a group who aren't pleasant to you) then why would you want to be friends with them?

If people are so insecure they can only really feel valued by reference to a third person who is not valued, then I also feel quite sympathetic towards them.

You may make friends at the school gate or you may not (pretty much like every where else) but why would you feel that because others have done where you haven't this makes them somehow wrong or unfair? Grow up

@Zov

I didn't ask you to apologise for anything. But thanks for confirming that you are in a clique!

I'm not in a "clique", actually. Or even a friendship group. For the record, since you're so interested, I am a member of a year-wide school WhatsApp thread (as is every parent in the year). Outside of that I have the numbers of three individual mums whose kids are friendly with my DD to arrange logistics. I don't socialise with them at all. I'm not on any school WhatsApp threads other than that.

But I am perfectly comfortable and happy that other mums at my DD's school might have a WhatsApp thread or go to the pub together once in a while. It doesn't threaten me or bother me at all.

Why are you so interested in my being part of a "clique"?

How does a group that supports each other exclude others from getting access to information though? Surely the school shares all the info equally on whatever channel - email/app/letter in bag.

If parents set up their own support groups, to remind each other or ask questions that is up to them. You could just as equally start a WhatsApp group with some people you chat to.

At the school gate I chat to the mum of my son’s best friend as we also hang out at weekends. We text each other about stuff. I’ve naturally included other people I chat to now we have a WhatsApp group of about 6-7 mums. No other mum has ever shown interest in chatting to me.

For my younger child I sent out 30 party invites and got not one reply.

So forgive me if I just communicate with the parents that actively seem to want to engage.

Why not just get your kid and go home? School gates doesn’t have to be a thing.

OP- what specifically is it that you think the "clique" should be doing that they aren't, in order to be offering sufficient support, access to opportunities etc? You are taking in very vague general terms so it is hard to understand what exactly they are doing wrong.

I worry about this occasionally, I have a group of friends whose kids went to my kids nursery and a few other mums who have become part of the same chat, I do worry some people end up excluded. I always try to include anyone around but there have been occasions where I'm going for pre arranged coffee after drop off to discuss something specific with a friend, usually about the kids, and we want to mull it over as friends. And I'm a woman who has often been not included so if hate to have someone feel like that. But then I still don't think it's cliquey to want to chat to a friend I've known for 6 yes now.

I was far too old a parent to get into that.

I met several though who are still friends today.

I have 3 grown daughters. In all my years of doing school pick-ups and drop-offs, I never had the bitchiness that so many on here seem to encounter.

Me too. I’m an older parent so I didn’t involve myself in trying to get into groups. I made friends with a couple of older mums who I’m still friends with today long after the primary years. I’m generally more of a one to one friend anyway so didn’t even think about being part of a group.

Seniors they made their own way to and from.