To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

[SharpMintReader]

The school-gate groups and WhatsApp chats often look less like support networks and more like exclusive cliques. AIBU to think “mum friendships” are too often politics in disguise?

I am surprised at the results @SharpMintReader because I agree with you 100%. I used to HATE the school gate mafia. It's OK if you're in the clique, but not so much if you're not. I did used to find the cliques broke up though (eventually,) and the women would be at each others throats, and slagging each other off to anyone who would listen. It was glorious to see... 😆

OP’s posts are definitely AI. It’s easy to tell.

Yeah there’s having school gate chats and there is feeling “excluded and offended” or whatever because you’re worried about some school playground popularity contest.

It’s not about being superior. It’s about having a bit of fucking perspective. Women need to have their own lives that extend beyond family and motherhood.

I agree with both sides of the argument. On the one hand, people can be friends without being part of a clique. Just because they are friends doesn't mean they are intentionally isolating others.
On the other hand, I have definitely witnessed toxic behaviour amongst some " school mum" groups. To anyone who is introverted and making friends doesn't come too easily, I can see why some might be perceived as cliques. I have had school mum friends who I saw in my own time so I understand that side of it, but I've also definitely been on the wrong side of an unpleasant group of women at the school. One mum in particular wouldn't look at me or speak to me when in a group, would elbow past me, in short tried to make me feel intimidated. It turned out she had had an affair with another school mum's husband and he had previously made a comment about fancying me and so from then on she had a personal vendetta against me. Ultimately, I think it comes down to the fact some people are nice and others are not so nice, but maybe being forced to mix with the same people twice a day for 7 ish years exacerbates that.

Totally agree. Who is peddling this idea that taking your kids to school is this jolly social event, all mums together, everyone talks to everyone and there's a night out every Friday? And then when women start taking their kids to school and find that actually, some people will talk to people they know already, others are absorbed in their phone, others dump and run off to work, and others stand there actively avoiding eye contact, they think it's a "clique"?

Who is joining the class or year WhatsApp group for a “support network”?

ours is for PTA events info, sharing reminders for money to be sent in, trips, dress up days, etc, party invites or asking general questions.

I’m also part of a smaller group of mum’s who got on well after our first night out - we have similar sense of humour and are into similar things. I’m sure to other parents they might consider us a “clique” but, as an adult, I don’t have to be in a group with people I don’t really get on with.
I also have separate chats with mums who aren’t even in that separate group - would that be considered cliquey?

school WhatsApp groups might be school related, but we aren’t children in school

@THisbackwithavengeance

I think if you dismiss cliques as non existent and irrelevant then you’ve clearly never been the victim of exclusion from one and you’re likely in the school gate Queen Bee Clique already.

But the thing is there are "cliques" (if that's how you want to characterise them) in absolutely every social environment in the world. You can talk about the "Queen Bee Clique" in a way which suggests a very negative and toxic but that's a very subjective take. You say "clique", someone else says "friendship group". But calling someone who you don't know a "Queen Bee" because they're not your friend suggests that this is a you problem first and foremost. It's impossible to know what this "Queen Bee" has done. What have they actually done? I'm prepared to bet good money it's nothing more than just failing to invite you to something.

That may hurt you, but I'm afraid that's life. You aren't entitled to join anything.

I haven’t experienced this at all. Though there are definitely mums I’m not interested in being friends with. Because they aren’t very nice or their kids are a real PITA or I don’t have anything in common with them or they are hardcore Reform supporters.

I’m friends with people I like and not friends with any I don’t. That said, my friends are generally not mums from the school gate. I have a full life beyond being a parent and doing the school run. My friends are largely people I’ve known for 10, 20, 30 years or they are people I met at work or through hobbies. I think the problem is too many women base their whole lives around taking their kids to school and back. There are so many more ways to make friends and fill your days. I couldn’t care less if Jimmy and Bobby’s mums invite me for cake and gossip.

I’m not interested any WhatsApp groups either, though Dh is in a dads WhatsApp group with his dad friends. It’s called The Fat Dads and they do fat dad things like going to the pub, cycling and taking the kids away for weekend camping trips so us mums get a break. It’s generally free of drama, but they do like to gossip about other dads. 😂

Yes I have to agree - definitely AI.

Obviously we’d all have mums we related to more but there did seem to be a few impenetrable cliques where an outsider's smile was met with a confused look. There were a few mums I got on well with but we weren’t a group, more just 1:1. I am still friends with a couple of the primary school gate mums even though our kids have now graduated or are still at uni. No idea about the politics though, I just felt it was more like attracting like.

Yet here you are commenting and thus helping to make it into active convos

Just -why? Hide it and move on is surely a better option for you

@Thepeopleversuswork

When men have a friendship group its "bonding" or "networking". When women do it its "bitchy, cliquey, school gate mums". It's so depressing and infuriating.

That is pretty much accurate though. As a whole, whilst female friends can be invaluable when everything is going right, they can turn really nasty when you fall out, and the friendship goes go tits up. They sometimes gang up with other women, and can be really unpleasant. Male friendship groups don't tend to go down this route.

Not sexist, just factual.

So take some control yourself then. Social power and influence in the setting you describe isn't something that's handed out to a fortunate few by the school. If this group of mums have greater influence and are more in the know about school matters, it will generally be because they've got in there, got involved, created networks themselves. There is nothing to stop you doing the same. You may never secure in invitations for your family to events organised out of school by this group, but that's too bad. Make your own group. However there's no excuse for remaining ill informed or silent on school matters.

I’m terrible at working that out. Is there an obvious style to AI generated posts?

Humans, including human mothers, form social groups.

The end.

Or just a bunch of mums who have a chat and a laugh when doing the school run and it brightens up their day?

No, men who dislike other men gang up and rip them apart quite overtly, and bully them mercilessly. It's called banter. When men seriously fall out its not uncommon for it to end in physical violence.

I haven’t read more than 2 or 3 of the OP’s posts, I just came on to point out that this is AI generated bollocks.

To be fair, whilst I agree with you, I’ve definitely worked places that have a Queen Bee. And it’s often a man!

@SunflowerLife

I have definitely witnessed toxic behaviour amongst some " school mum" groups. To anyone who is introverted and making friends doesn't come too easily, I can see why some might be perceived as cliques. I have had school mum friends who I saw in my own time so I understand that side of it, but I've also definitely been on the wrong side of an unpleasant group of women at the school.

Yeah this. ^ I think quite a number of women have experienced this. You can see the ones on this thread who haven't - and are very likely part of said 'cliques.' You can see the toxic comments coming out from a few posters ... Comments like 'oh you struggle to make friends so you blame other people?' So rude.

@Zov

That is pretty much accurate though. As a whole, whilst female friends can be invaluable when everything is going right, they can turn really nasty when you fall out, and the friendship goes go tits up. They sometimes gang up with other women, and can be really unpleasant. Male friendship groups don't tend to go down this route.

Really? Have you ever been at a pub at kicking out time?

A typical response to someone who says something you don't like, and don't agree with. You must have spent AGES creating this incredible and thought-provoking response.

Join? As in pay your subs every year and turn up to meetings led by the queen bee? The words you've used are giving that vibe even if that wasn't intended. Which is why I don't join friendship groups, I just have friends.

Take this response
They can be that and that’s great when it happens. But I’ve also seen situations where the group becomes exclusionary - even subtly. It’s not always about laughter and lattes; sometimes it’s about social hierarchy, even among mums.

The response always start with a shortish phrase agreeing with others points. The next sentence is the 'but' - the dash is a common AI sign as well. The ' it's not always laughter and lattes, sometimes' is another common AI phrasing (!not sure what's called thought).
Try reading all the OPs responses together and you'll see the pattern.

Tell me you're in a school mum friendship clique without telling me you're in a school mum friendship clique.