To think most “mum friendship groups” are just thinly veiled cliques?

[SharpMintReader]

The school-gate groups and WhatsApp chats often look less like support networks and more like exclusive cliques. AIBU to think “mum friendships” are too often politics in disguise?

You should be getting this stuff from school directly. If you aren’t, take it up with the school. Friendship groups of parents who are probably well-engaged with the school, of have older siblings, are in no way bound to pass this on to everyone like a public service.

Some women don’t need hoards of friendship groups, value quality over quantity and see school
groups for what they are- social and academic competitive parenting groups. When did it become necessary to navigate primary school having your hand held by multiple groups?

A clique - a group of people who do not readily allow others to join them.

Friendship -state of mutual trust and support between allied nations.

There is limited mutual trust and support in these groups and often a lot of gossip, bickering over ridiculous things, exclusion and schoolyard behaviour.

I’ve been in them and seen it all.

I agree that putting any group on a pedestal reinforces the dynamic. But social hierarchy isn’t always about personal admiration - it’s about who holds influence in a setting. Sometimes these groups shape who gets the heads-up on things, who’s invited, or whose voice carries weight. It’s less about craving inclusion, more about recognising how subtle power plays can operate in everyday spaces.

The trick, I find, is to have a life that extends beyond the school gates.

Maybe a job or a hobby?

Information, reminders, help with school stuff that's not the role of random school mums.
social support during tricky moments again not the role of random school mums.
You seem to see them as official school staff support workers for you, while also being some form of mumfiosa...

Maybe if you're experiencing this a lot, it's a you problem? You seem to be the common denominator?

We didn’t have WhatsApp groups back in the day (thank the Lord) but I didn’t care about ‘mum groups’ I was happy to be in a bubble with my kids and I eventually formed friendships with the mums who my kids played with.

I was aware of cliques and groups that went to the pub together but they reminded me of insecure 16 year olds with a herd mentality. I would not have wanted to be part of that if they'd begged me.

Far better to be a cool lone wolf and be discerning about who you and your children pass the time with. My kids are adults now and two of those school gate women are still good friends all these years later. So the ‘lone wolf’ approach still works!

I suggest you join the school governors or parents association op. If you want power and knowledge then go and get it

This.

These posts are ridiculous 🙄 and sexist

Completely agree. Is everyone supposed to be friends with everyone? People are always going to get on better with some people than others.

And frankly these posts are always tinged with internal misogyny. If some women get on better with a few other women it’s a “bitchy clique” rather than a group of women who happen to get on and have common interests or a similar sense of humour etc. If it was men, they’d just be considered normal mates.

@Strawberrymatcha5

Some women don’t need hoards of friendship groups, value quality over quantity and see school
groups for what they are- social and academic competitive parenting groups.

But clearly OP isn't one of these women or she wouldn't be lashing out on Mumsnet about how these groups are all exclusionary?

You can't have it both ways. If you think these groups are bullshit then just ignore them. Complaining they exist suggests some feeling of entitlement to be included and irritation that they are not.

I think @5128gap has it just right. These sorts of threads are initiated by a poster who has identified what she thinks is a group of "cool kids" or "successful mums" who she thinks she needs to ingratiate herself with for her kids' social success and then gets the hump and lashes out when this group doesn't immediately jump to welcome her.

It actually suggests a very cynical outlook on life to expect that you are entitled to join every social group by default.

Could you give an example? I have no idea what you mean.

Just do what I do, run late constantly so you avoid them all. I don't get involved in school drama and I don't care if they like me. I am polite and invite the children to parties and for playdates but none of them are my friends.

It’s less about craving inclusion, more about recognising how subtle power plays can operate in everyday spaces.

Now you're trying to intellectualise "the big girls won't play with me" into social analysis.

Humans are a social species. There are hierarchies and power plays in endless situations. In general we don't notice because those are the social waters in which we swim.

I don't know why you expect women at the school gate to be any different from workplaces, clubs or anywhere else where many people are clustered regularly.

Seriously is this a SAHM thing because I don’t know any working parents who have the time or energy for this crap. I literally drop them at school and run to work 🫤

Agree that having a full life outside the school gates helps, most of us do. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about how social dynamics play out in those spaces. Dismissing the issue as something only people without jobs or hobbies notice kind of misses the point.

Or maybe I’ve just noticed a dynamic that others would rather not acknowledge. Talking about patterns doesn’t mean I’m the problem - it means I’m not pretending the politics don’t exist just because I’m not personally benefitting from them.

Thrives on hierarchy and control? Really?

It does not miss the point. I work full time and I don’t engage with any school gate crap. I don’t feel excluded, I remember things all by myself and I don’t need random school mums to support me because I have other friends. It’s simply not an issue that’s on my radar, It has literally never occurred to me to care about my social standing in the school playground.

@SharpMintReader

Agree that having a full life outside the school gates helps, most of us do. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about how social dynamics play out in those spaces. Dismissing the issue as something only people without jobs or hobbies notice kind of misses the point.

But again, why is network selection considered legitimate when it happens outside school but "bitchy" and "cliquey" when it happens at school?

This happens in literally every environment which involves some social contact. Why should school be a utopia of everyone being invited to everything?

I think school groups are different from most other ways people make friends - for one thing there you are seeing / meeting loads of other mums (or parents) all at once, regularly but for only short periods of time and the only immediately obvious thing you have in common is that your kids are in the same class / school.

Groups formed tend to be larger than usual and looser - there was one mum in my eldest's class I almost never saw as her day off was a day I worked, whereas the others mostly coincided with me more often. I never fully knew exactly who were actual friends with each other and who were just part of the group (all the 'middle class' mums) - it had started between those who had older children. I was included in social events but never felt fully part of things as my child didn't get on well with other kids (ADHD / ASD). I liked some of the other mums a lot and not others, some ignored me.

Situation with the younger child was totally different 4 years later in same school. There wasn't an established group - over time we found each other (some of us at the local play park where we hung about after school). Also lots of dads involved. We got to know each other through chatting / play dates etc. As adults (couples sometimes) we went to the pub or school events together. One couple overlapped with the older child's group and we got to know them better due to this. We still see most of these people socially on occasion, even though our kids are now all over 18.

A lot of school parent groups aren't actually fixed, they dissolve and regroup. I had a loose group from when youngest started secondary but that fizzled out when my child changed her friendship groups.

But I wasn't aware of anyone being toxic as such. On the contrary. Though my closest friend during the early primary years was a work colleague who had an older child at my kids' school. We often sloped off for coffee alone together as we had much more in common.

Honestly if you're noticing patterns, it's you. Sorry!

I can only assume this is all about you OP. Exactly what opportunities have these women kept from you and your child? You seem very low on details.

The best way to get more involved is literally to get more involved. Join the PTA, volunteer to listen to readers at school, help out at events or fundraisers.

It’s not always about laughter and lattes; sometimes it’s about social hierarchy, even among mums.

I can honestly say that in 26 years of parenting and many of those as a parent of children at school, I have never encountered one of these cliques.

'Even among mums'? What on earth does that mean?

There were friendship groups, some.smaller, some larger. There were individual friendships.

People aren't obliged to he friends or include anyone else.

Some of the 'mums' who didn't work seemed to form stronger friendship groups. My youngest was at a school where there was a fairly big friendship group of women who didn't work (ladies who lunched) and even though our childen are now at university, they are still friends and go on holidays together etc.

I suppose some insecure and desperate to he part of something bigger or lonely people might have regarded them as a clique. But to everyone else, they were just a group of friends who had chosen to be friends. It wasn't a public group open to everyone.

I think they often start outside the gate as “support” but invariably descend into unpleasantness and an over inflated ego as to communicating with school.
When some members try to speak for all parents and things get organised without the inclusion of all parental views and knowledge and descend into gossip and exclusion they are not helpful.

I find it interesting that these best of mates groups invariably disappear once kids leave these schools. They aren’t real friendships and absolutely are all about politics- keeping in so your kid is, making sure your kid can compete and is competing academically and socially, being by privy to all the gossip…. When do they ever include the struggling parents of any category? They are
often the parents that are gossiped about and excluded in these groups .

If it’s any help op schools have similar views. I’d do your own thing and make your own real friends it’s a much healthier role model for kids. Contact school if you don’t feel you are getting all the info you need or your views aren’t being included. Get your kids to value quality in friends, not quantity.