AIBU to not understand why people will vote Reform when Brexit is the reason for the migrant boats.

[LIGHTSNACKER]

We did not have a boat problem before Brexit due to the rules/agreements, so why do people want to vote for the man who had a big part in causing this and his company party?

Really? A Calais camp isn’t that inviting.

@FairHazelMentor

it’s not the level of benefits you get as an asylum seeker that is attractive. It’s two things: 1)massive black economy supported by lack of ID cards and very little enforcement against obvious sources of illegal labour in the form of takeaways, nail bars, delivery drivers 2) the fact that we have a non contributory benefit system, so down the line you don’t have to earn much or pay much tax to get a whole host of benefits.

France is more generous to those going through the asylum process.

The Calais camps are largely inhabited by people who haven't claimed asylum (because they plan to do it in the UK) or applied, were rejected, and didnt leave.

In the UK, they would be in detention centres pending (attempted) deportation.

Do you think that it wouls be a deterent if he stopped detaining folks and allowed them to live freely (albeit unsupported) in similar camps? Even if you do - do you fancy the likely increase in crime that comes with it?

The problems with immigrants crossing the water was an issue prior to Brexit, the crisis on port of calaisi.

The Brexit results, is one of those moments that you never forget where you were when the news broke.

ID cards would help. Obviously when Blair tries to introduce them, the public rejected it, but they seem more on board with the "Britcard" policy.

France is still more generous to non-contributors than the UK.

Reform will get my vote too. It’s the only party that vocalises the active threat of the growing religion that hates our way of life. Labour are positively squashing any sentiment that isn’t in favour of Islam. We have to be able to criticise. We have a right to our feelings and thoughts. Never before have I been so concerned about what I say online - even this. This is not how it should be. I love our country and want my children to be safe. Disapproving views should not be vetoed with the threat of imprisonment!

What are Reform going to do about this 'threat'?

Oh god not this nonsense again.

Most of the world is NOT in the EU.

If it were true that any country not in the EU must accept unlimited immigrants that would include all of them and I expect they'd be puzzled by the very idea.

"Mr Putin. We've just been informed by mumsnet that we're not allowed to limit immigration because we're not in the EU"

Additionally the 1951 Refugee Convention signed by 149 states spells out that it is illegal to enter a country without prior permission unless fleeing immediate danger.

Immediate as in the Gestapo are chasing you - which of course doesn't apply to someone leaving France.

Unlimited immigration is a choice made by governments when it suits their needs. You can support it or not.

But it's time to accept that Brexit is over. It's done. We are not Brexiting now and we didn't Brexit yesterday afternoon. We're not going to Brexit in the morning. It's not a process but a reference to something that happened many years ago.

(And no it didn't cause global warming either or the pole shift)

You don't have to like it, but it happened. By all means criticise what is happening now that you don't like.

@MiloMinderbinder925 well I guess for one they won’t gaslight the nation with all this “diversity is our strength” crap.

You think an ethnostate would be our strength?

Limiting immigration isn't the same thing, we're talking about asylum seekers.

Brexit has most likely caused an increase in the number of asylum seekers to the UK, and has certainly made it more difficult to deport unsuccessful applicants, which often results in them remaining in the UK.

We wont be undoing Brexit but that doesn't mean we cant acknowledge the issues it has caused, particularly if we want to...you know... deal with them.

I don’t think it’s helping other EU countries much. If it was as as easy as deporting out of it Greece wouldn’t be overwhelmed to point of closing down asylum system and France and Germany plus others struggling in the same way.

Only a few countries have really reduced pressures, as per pp

Well, the EU has a succesful return rate that fluctuates between ablut 30 and 40% and, as part of the EU, our return rate was 30-35%.

Now, post Brexit, our return rate is 6-8%

Has the EU found a perfect solution? No. And its a particular challenge for southern and Eastern European countries. Does the EU have significantly better rates of deportation? Yes. Did the UK have a signficiantly (4-5 times higher) rate pre-Brexit? Also yes.

I don't see the point in denying the role of Brexit tbh. Its supporters would surely acknowledge that Brexit was always going to present challenges and teething problem, and identifying them is a necessary step to addressing them.

I didn’t even vote for Brexit.

On countries that are reducing pressure it’s unrelated to the EU as some are very high pressure still.

It’s hardline policies pretty much that do it - third country, barriers or Danish version to lesser extent.

Even if you didn't vote for it, you're denying its contribution to the current crisis. That's not really factually tenable, regardless of how you think it could realistically be better solved.

Oh my God...

Do people really believe this?

How exactly do you "close the English channel to migrants"

Would you sink or fire on the boats and let them drown?

A Physical land border can indeed be closed, a sea border? not so easy.

Yes 100% Brexit to blame, don't recall dinghies crossing the channel pre Brexit, we had influence in the EU and France, we were in the club - the trafickers model couldn't work as migrants could be sent back.

Even ex Tory ministers have said so:
https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-recording-reveals-top-tory-knew-of-flaws-in-post-brexit-plan-to-return-illegal-migrants-13367821

@FairHazelMentor Britain was “returning” a maximum of around 500 a year while it was an EU member under the Dublin agreement so while EU countries may have a higher return rate, it’s not hugely relevant to the situation in the UK.

I just see it differently to you.

If deportation was a primary factor I don’t think Greece, Germany and other EU countries would be struggling so much.

I’ve stated which policies I think work - illegal pull backs, change in maritime laws, third location, physical barriers and Danish type stuff and which countries have done each.

If you were to list which countries globally had lowered migration pressures most effectively with policies which would be your top 3 to 5 would you say?

Yes feel the same. Don’t worry there are enough likeminded people who will vote tto keep Labour out at the next election. I know it’s 4 years away but honestly it’s all there is to cling to.

I don't see much point in discussing would-be solutions (not least given that there isn't an obvious, straightforward one) with someone who doesn't grasp the current problems, and how leaving the EU has massively exacerbated them.

Well that was a cop out. I was hoping to hear the top countries.

Is it because it doesn’t align with your take? Surely it’s not that precious and your argument is robust enough to list a few countries.

No it isn’t

Its a cop out to deny the issues caused by Brexit - yet here we are.

If you wanted to take the position that leaving the EU is a necessary precursor to introducing a tougher regime, and that the current influx is a necessary step, sure - we could discuss that.

But there's no point discussing a topic with someone who lacks a baseline understanding - and you're denying reality.

And although we can learn lessons from other countries, we can't assume that the UK is politically or geographically able to enact them.

Incidentally, Denmark has a 70% deportation rate - through a combination of paying failed applicants to leave voluntarily, agreements with non-EU countries of origin (both via the EU and Denmark's own agreements) and it being a net benefactor under the Dublin regulations.

Ok don’t list them then. I assume none would fit your argument.

@FairHazelMentor I’m happy to agree that Brexit has been a minor factor in the scale of Britain’s current illegal immigration problem but I really can’t see how it is possible to argue it is THE major factor or indeed a major factor.