AIBU to not understand why people will vote Reform when Brexit is the reason for the migrant boats.

[LIGHTSNACKER]

We did not have a boat problem before Brexit due to the rules/agreements, so why do people want to vote for the man who had a big part in causing this and his company party?

You are all so misinformed.

Under EU law, we had the right to turn illegals back to France.

Yes, I will say that again. EU law gave us the right to return migrant boats - and that is what we did. So they didn't bother paying the ££££ to make the dangerous journey.

Brexit took that law away, after the 5 year transition period.

We no longer have a right to send them back. So they come.

Simples.

How could they stop it tomorrow?

Because they are gullible idiots who read shit newspapers and like people who validate and enable their racism and bigotry.

Prior to Brexit we were part of the Dublin Agreement. This gave us the right to automatically return asylum seekers to the first EU country they passed through prior to reaching Britain, e.g., if they travelled through France before getting a boat we could return them to France. When we left the EU, we lost access to the rights we had under that agreement. We also lost access to shared intelligence networks working against the gangs so that we could prevent boats from setting sail in the first place.

Farage engineered Brexit and helped lose our access to the Dublin Agreement, he is now campaigning on a platform of the same terms as the Dublin Agreement. It's almost as if he needed to ensure an ongoing political career post-Brexit once that one particular single-issue ended because, let's face it, he's a single-issue kind of person with no substance beyond sound bites and dog-whistles to the lowest common denominator. The only person Nigel Farage cares about is Nigel Farage, his only goal is to feather his own nest and he will tap into whatever exploitative rhetoric he can in order to do so. The man is a grifter. He wouldn't save you if you were in fire, but he'd find a way to charge you for the heat you're generating and to blame the initial spark on migrants.

The people who love him and think he's some sort of plain-talking saviour are exactly the sort of people who will quickly find themselves on the receiving end of his self-serving discrimination. Look at the people in America who happily voted for Trump and then suddenly found their healthcare, financial assistance, children's education, jobs, etc. were no longer available.

The tragedy of Reform is that the people they're conning into supporting them are, by and large, the very people they will punish if they ever get into power. They've riled a bunch of people into punching down but the real con-job here is that they're actually punching themselves in the face and they don't even realise it.

If it’s Brexit op can you say where the Dublin Agreement is resolving the migrant issue in the EU?

Which EU country is using it as a way to deal with numbers?

I’m not sure that Reform can get rid of the arrivals that in truth nobody sane sees as beneficial the country. Can he do what Trump is doing and round them up and get rid of them? How?

Brexit is irrelevant to this. Ask Sweden.

This first paragraph, have you noticed what’s happening with the same migrant issue in the EU?

BBC was reporting on boat crossings in 2014. Before then the channel crossings were still happening but tended to be in lorries on ferries and the channel tunnel. As they've cracked down on the searches, and made targeting vehicles harder that's what has driven the rise in boat traffic. I remember when you used to drive towards the ferries at night and you would see small groups waiting to run for lorries

The Calais Jungle which had 3000 migrants trying to get to the UK was disbanded in 2016 so it was a well established problem prior to Brexit.

I employ foriegn students in my business at Christmas and the one's I meet only come here to work, there Uni courses are one day a week and they are often 2 year courses.
Over the last 15 years in my business I have seen that many stay by marriage or other means, around half, and so it is just a route to immigration.
There were 22 Universities in 1960 and now there are 164, and 24% of the student population are foriegn students, so the equivelant of 41 Uni's - quarter of them are running to educate non-brits and although foreign students pay more fees I'm sure that we pay much more tax to keep the Uni's running and have no benifit from it.
Care homes and the NHS employ 200,000 foreign born staff but we have legal migration of 500,000 in one year, it is unfathemable except it has become an idealogical crusade of the elites.

I think Brexit allowed it up happen as opposed to caused it.

I’m horribly old and I can remember that whole thing with ‘the jungle’ where the French were only vaguely keeping a cap on it when they kinda, sorta, had to. Directly they didn’t ‘have to’ as we had opted out of the EU they just let them pass through unabated. I think we now pay them to do something but they still don’t really do anything.

Why do people think Farage has the answers? Well it really is as simple as the fact he speaks plain English and doesn’t spend all the time skirting around issues and stuttering and stumbling over simple concepts.

We are moving into an era where people are deeply mistrustful of anyone in control. We are being fed constant propaganda with deep fake information thrown in. If someone in charge can’t just tell the truth when we are all looking at what is going on and feeling the effect of what’s going on then it becomes the Emporer’s New clothes and people will turn against it. The best thing any of these politicians could say is that they want to control the boat crossings but they can’t and why they can’t. Lots of people assume it’s as easy and turning the boats around and they need to understand why that’s just not possible.

Yes the pp are forgetting lorries and very high asylum claims early 2000s.

Probably just complete ignorance then

I see this thinking a lot - "don't blame the lack of whatever in the UK on migrants."

That's a misunderstanding. No one is blaming migrants for the fact that, for example, people in the UK won't do farm work. Migrants are behaving totally rationally, from their own perspective, but that doesn't mean that is the kind of policy that is good for the nation, economically or otherwise.

The idea that migrants are somehow better suited to farm work, or that the people of the UK are entitled to better jobs so people from other places should be brought in to take care of the crappy jobs, is the issue. I'm still not sure how this is supposed to be the "non-racist" view.

There are internal reasons that there are not people willing to do these jobs in the UK. Population figures are only one, and one that could perhaps be partly alleviated by responsible immigration, at least short term, but that isn't what is going on.

Instead, large numbers of immigrants are being used as a way to prevent addressing the other significant internal issues, and especially, to keep wages low, and avoid investment in good education and training.

Before the boats, migrants were coming over on lorries.

Every country in Europe is grappling with this and anti-migration parties are on the rise. Reform are actually quite moderate compared to Golden Dawn, Vox, AFD and others.

I wouldn't vote reform in a million years.

But consecutive governments have done f-all to combat illegal boat crossings and have had absolutely bizarre immigration policies for years.

I have encountered many incidences in my public sector job for years.

I currently know of a very lovely family from Pakistan. Dad was able to bring over the whole family after years of leaving his wife and DC to work in the UK. As a taxi-driver.

In the last year, he's brought over his wife and 4 children. Wife currently pregnant again. In crap housing that the state has to deal with, as well as the healthcare, all DC needing to be educated and receive healthcare as well as new baby. And state involvement due to certain issues with the family.

They came to the UK for a better life and with the hope their DC will be Dr's etc. But they might not and even if one becomes a Dr, the entire family has and will continue to cost a fortune to the tax-payer.

I've seen this time and again.

We need someone to take some action, the Uniparty (LibLabCon) all ultimately sing to the same tune as we are currently seeing.

I think the spread of the protests this month won't see any positive progress from the government, just further censorship and more arrests of protest organisers. Come the autumn our leadership will try to push digital ID as a way to stop the boats, it won't of course, but it will give them extra means to crack down on protest.

Brexit made us less racist. We treated all migrants fairly on their skills and not on their passport. One of my friends only got his job because he didn't have to face unfair EU competition

Yes I think you are right

In the end, I think the idea is that if Reform takes some action that's good, but even if they don't it's a big FU to the other parties and maybe will finally get them to sit up and listen.

Ultimately, if politicians won't listen, that is what happens, people will take stronger and stronger measures to have their concerns taken seriously.

I think a lot of Brexit was fundamentally about a view of governance, and so not really about the sort term economic effects anyway. It's not necessarily anti-international trade, nor is it always anti-international cooperation. But it is anti-international governance. So a lot of the Remainer type arguments end up falling flat.

I think the amount of contempt thrown at Nigel Farage is getting him more support, too. The people moaning about him are the same people pretending that those worried about immigration are ‘racists’. ie People stuck in reactive labelling and discounting of those with genuine concern.

"performing arts and sports being restricted to those who were born here"

Eh?

That's probably true. By pretending not to understand the problem, they make even their sensible criticisms suspect. It's similar to the effect that gender issue has had, by sticking to their guns on it, many progressives have convinced a lot of people that they must be either naive morons, personally compromised, or perverts, so anything they say is suspect, even on totally differernt topics.

I think Farage is really more of a public performer, a media personality, rather than a political person who is ready to do the grunt work of governance. That might be ok in a party leader if there were other people in the party who did have those talents, but I think that's in question. The more useless that the Tories and Labour are, however, the more competent people might be willing to defect to Reform. So perhaps that is something that could change.

It did not make us less racist. Post-Brexit there was a 15-25% percent rise in racially motivated crimes. The higher the Leave vote in an area, the higher the rise, with Remain areas having lower rises.

Because Farage and his mates lie to them, and they are looking for an explanation as to why they are still badly off. Farage lies a lot, he is a Trump man. Some voters also believe conspiracy theories.

Reform don’t have an answer either…not when you really push them. They have to follow international law too. Despite their rhetoric.