To think the cafe staff should have given the money to this homeless man?

[Eastie77Returns]

I went to a cafe earlier today. There was a man outside who regularly sits with a sign stating he is homeless and asking for money. At one point a man came in, handed a member of the cafe staff a £20 note and left. It turned out he had given the staff this money to buy a meal for the homeless man who subsequently came into the cafe and ordered some food and drink. It was clearly a regular occurrence as the staff member automatically knew to charge the bill to the £20. When she had rung everything up she handed the man his meal and he asked for his change. She refused and said “No, the money is only to be used for food here. You know this. If you want to use any of the change you can order something else tomorrow”

The homeless man became angry and shouted that he wanted his money. The whole episode escalated and he began banging a table. A male member of staff eventually escorted/pushed him outside.

AIBU to think the cafe should have just given him the money??

No. She was in holiday in San Francisco and met the homeless man.

Of course Shelter advise that. In 2024 they spent £82m on giving advice and fundraising. They also lobbied government for a change in landlord legislation which they were warned would lead to more homelessness. And it did. They do not provide accommodation for anyone who is a rough sleeper and actually, their services are very difficult for those people to access. The reason they don’t want you to give a homeless person money, because Shelter want you to thunk by giving it to them, they are helping those who are living on the streets. It doesn’t.

Equally, you’ll see local councils suggesting you don’t give them cash, nothing at all to do with not helping them, they just don’t want you to encourage them. When you look at the pros and cons of direct giving, the cons are largely all about the donor or society than the individual themselves, whereas the pros are all about the individual.

Views are mixed on whether you should or shouldn’t, but most importantly, people who have been sleeping rough and have managed to get their life back on track say giving them some money helped them at a time when they were in trouble, and usually led to some kind of interaction which helped them more than the money did.

It’s far too easy to judge someone. You either think the person on the street deserves some help or not. Giving in a certain way because you feel there should be strings attached is not an altruistic act.

i grew up in east london and i get it-its not his money so not his change to take

did u offer any money

If I ran the cafe, I'd refuse to be put in the middle again. The man paying can either buy something to give the homeless man himself or give him money to do with as he pleases. This is extra trouble the cafe workers simply don't need, and it could easily end up convincing their paying customers to go somewhere without the shouting and pounding of tables.

If I was the donor I would have wanted the man to have food, drink and then allowed to spend the rest as he saw fit.

You’re not the donor. And that’s clearly not what the donor wanted, or else they would have just handed the homeless person the £20 in the first place. Out of interest if you were so concerned for them getting the change, why didn’t you offer them the cash equivalent yourself?

But these cards are given directly to the women to use, in your case the £20 was not given directly to the homeless man, it was given to the cafe to pay for the man's food. I don't know why you are not getting this point, the money was not the man's money for him to be entitled to the change. I think you are ignoring this point as your whole spiel of righteous indignation would be ruined, and you don't want to back down. I recognise your name as a regular poster so perhaps you feel a bit embarrassed about misjudging this situation?

Because there are loads of those, and rough sleepers have no problems accessing them at all even where they do exist. 🙄

This is not true. Views are mixed, even among those who work within individual charities.

She sounds like an American CEO though and theres quite a bit of difference between the UK and America in the reasons for homelessness and the social safety net. A lot of people in America end up homeless due to lack of social safety net and so drink/take drugs to cope with that, whereas in the UK its more likely that someone is homeless because theyre a drug addict/alcoholic and wont engage with services due to the addiction etc.

There are plenty of PP here who work with the homeless and all day that giving money isn't the way

We have a social safety net here. We have food stamps, Medicaid, public housing, income assistance.

I agree. People have a choice to do what they wish. I think it’s important to understand the full extent of your choices though. E.g giving money to Shelter will not help that rough sleeper, giving to an organisation which provides direct support is much better. Rough sleepers don’t always take your cash and go off to the local drug dealer or off licence, often it provides immediate help in buying the things we all need to survive, not just food. Beggars aren’t all shipped in from their luxury flats to sit in the pissing rain asking for cash.

In any event, when you see someone on the street asking for money, don’t ignore them, at least give them some human interaction.

That tiny snapshot means nothing.

How many of them are ex-homeless for example?

You do indeed, but it's definitely not as generous as UK and European safety nets and healthcare both physical and mental here is universal so no bankruptcy due to ill health (although it is by no means perfect).

I regularly buy food for homeless people in.my town but will never give money. There are signs up that try to dissuade people from. giving money

This type of situation is very common . Well meaning people want to help, but the situation is very complicated and kind but naive people can unwittingly make things worse.

If you want to help peole who are homeless or affected by addition, please give your time, money or goods to charities who know what they are doing. In every large city there’s a network of voluntary organisations who work together - some big ones you will have heard of ( like shelter) as well as small local groups.

Please please consider supporting them ( and gift aiding your donation if it’s cash ). Paying towards the salary of an addictions worker to support someone coming out of rehab or a tenancy support worker ( to stop someone losing their tenancy ) is kinder and more sustainable than giving someone cash for a bottle of cheap cider .

I know it’s doesn’t have that same “ feel good “ factor for the donor as handing someone £20 so you can feel like a big person. But you might be buying them the drugs or alcohol that contributes to a fatal overdose.

That’s one of the reasons why there are so many overdoses at Christmas - it’s the people on nights out guiltily handing out cash.

Agree why do peoples' just automatically go to he must be an addict. Speaking about addicts in general here but if they want money for a fix come hell or high water someway somehow they'll get it. Many would have no qualms whatsoever about mugging a elderly man or women. I Therefore I don't necessarily think not giving them money is the answer to everyone's prayers. I don't know what the answer is

Surely you could have bothered to properly read the OP where she said they did exactly that?

Still waiting for OP to explain why she didn't give him the money for him to spend on "personal hygiene items" himself...

Exactly. If they were so concerned they could have given him the £7 for toiletries, or whatever. 😉

She may not have had any spare money

Perhaps OP should have gone to Lidl instead of a cafe? Then she might have had £7 to spare herself?

She really isn't American. Far from it 🤣

https://www.newfrontierstogether.org/words/761/from-free-school-meals-to-ceo/

Lots of them ARE just coming to beg and then going home to a cushy apartment round here

All the little, independent charities who work with them will say it here

(So no hatred to Shelter )

But happy to decide how to spend other people's money.

Exactly. If the donor wanted the man to have the cash he could have just given it too him.