To think most men wouldn’t survive a year living the life of an average woman?

[ThatRealLimeBee]

The daily grind of sexism, safety worries, juggling expectations, emotional labour… Most men have no idea. AIBU to think they’d crumble under the load if they had to swap lives with us for a year?

Part of being a grown up is making decisions that benefit your family overall, not you as an individual. My DH is very happy- he’s in a job with far more annual leave than the norm, minimal commute and reasonable hours. Both of us did jobs previously where switching to PT is much riskier professionally- he understands he has a mortgage to pay. It doesn’t work for every couple to both drop days.

I also don’t think it’s unfair at all that you got 1 year’s maternity leave. Your DH did not go through pregnancy, labour and childbirth. Your DH did not experience significant blood loss or have a c-section. You physically deserved plenty of time to rest and recover, it’s incomparable. It’s bad enough mothers are hurried straight back out of hospital. Also, if you wanted to breastfeed, then you would have needed longer to do that- that’s impossible for Dad. You were more needed by your baby, so absolutely deserved longer. I’m all for Dads increasing their own paternity leave alongside Mum’s, but not at the expense of Mum’s own entitlement.

Why can’t you apply that same logic to women who have chosen to work? Everything you’ve just said applies to me.

Exactly. I understand that I have a mortgage to pay and it's not all about what benefits me personally.

We didn't drop days and we don't work part time. We both work full time, condensed hours. Four on four off 10 hour shifts so 40 hours a week. It's increasingly common for people to work shifts and do condensed hours, I only know two people that work Monday to Friday 9-5.

I never said it should be at mums expense. That's why SPL take up is so low. Its just totally unfair that men are expected to just accept they get very little time with their children even though it upsets them.

The longer a man gets on paternity leave, the better the physical and mental health of the mother. Also he got as little sleep as I did, was as anxious about baby as I was, he helped me immensely with breast feeding. He deserved that time as much as I did. I certainly didn't need a year to recover from my pregnancy and C section, after the first two months he needed just as much as I did. Men deserve equal time with their children. I will never not believe that.

Because you don’t have a SAHH. If you were married to one that would be comparable. Many couples don’t want both to be work FT, then have everything else to do on top. Many can’t afford to outsource and want some down time. Nothing that hasn’t already been said.

That depends entirely on the job.

No, I’m calling you out on your hypocrisy.

We actually both think it is extremely financially unwise to have both parents working FT and your mortgage, essential bills and outgoings at their maximum capacity, especially when the keep rising.

We would never have our family in that situation. If one person suddenly lost their job or their health seriously deteriorated, it puts you in a very vulnerable position. We’ve seen friends need to make major adjustments, downsize etc for taking on far too much with no wriggle room.

If that happened to us, everything continues as it is no problem. I am in a position to pick up all of the income needed to fund our lifestyle. So is my DH- he can afford to drop 2 days if something happened to me to be there for our children and home. We planned this over 20 years.

SPL is harmful to breastfeeeding and the biological needs of babies as opposed to the wants of grown men. I exclusively breastfed for 10 months, zero bottles- going back to work after 6 months so DH could have 6 months off would have not been in the best interests of our babies. I know many mothers who breastfeed for up to 2 years as recommended by WHO- up to them if they don’t want that disrupted.

Well, of course. I don’t have a problem seeing different views. My circumstances are (funnily enough) about me. Your claim that no one could do it was ridiculous. I don’t for a second doubt that many people can’t. Where you seem to struggle is understanding that for many people on lower wages, bringing in 2 of them is mandatory if the family want luxuries such as housing, electricity, and food….. so making people in those circumstances feel shit isn’t helpful. If you can’t afford somewhere to live, it’s quite challenging to sufficiently rotate the art work.

The vast majority of mothers in the UK don’t breastfeed for more than about three months, some not at all. SPL is about giving choices to parents to split the leave - not forcing them to do anything. I thought you were a fan of the German parental leave system - that allows both parents to take leave if they want to. Anyway you can relax as SPL uptake is very low. But it’s a choice.

My mortgage and bills aren’t at maximum capacity.
I work for many reasons, one of them is financial.

We could live off one income if we wanted to.

And it should remain a choice. It doesn’t suit all mothers and babies.

As I said to the other poster, I am all for men pushing to extend their own paternity leave, as long as that does not interfere with the mother’s own entitlements.

You’re in a position to earn all your family’s income if your DH lost his job? Really? What career do you have that you could immediately return to after many years out and instantly earn enough to support a family? Not doubting you necessarily but there’s no way you could do that in my career or that of many others. Also wouldn’t your kids suffer immensely if you aren’t there to organise their artwork and stuff? Can’t believe you’re even contemplating working.

As I have said throughout this discussion, I am very much on the side of lower income families and think there is something fundamentally wrong with our society that parents are forced financially to both work. I don’t agree that anyone should be in that situation, especially if they have children younger than school age.

It is also dangerous- if a parent can’t survive on one wage, where does that leave single parents who have to work FT? Where does that leave someone who absolutely does need to leave an abusive marriage if they are unable to survive on their own with their children? Very worrying.

Yes I genuinely could, and we planned this as we both lost parents as young children. We know more than most that there are no guarantees we will both be alive for the duration of our DCs childhoods.

To be clear- for me personally, I would fully expect to return to work and care for my DH if he could no longer work or died. I wouldn’t personally want to claim benefits. I would also work if my DH was unhappy and wanted to reduce his hours- we are a team.

We have achieved this by buying our home young, both paying off the mortgage for longer than we wanted before having children, staying in our first home and locking into low interest 5 year mortgage deals. I am naturally very frugal- when I worked FT I saved £500-£600 per month for years whilst still travelling, socialising etc. I don’t like wasting money. I paint my own nails, take my own flask everywhere, etc.

Surely you can guess my ex-career given how much I love organising and displaying children’s art work?!?!?! 😂

Art gallery curator/assistant?

Librarian?

Picture framer?

I’m afraid have absolutely no idea what career has children’s art arranger transferable skills 😂

Teaching? Well it’s lucky for you then that you bought your house young etc because for so many that’s not an option. Maybe it’s like the famous Mumsnet chicken that feeds a family for a week - the basic teachers salary that supports a whole family.

Everyone should have the option to buy a home young. As I keep saying, society is broken.

So houses for everyone, nobody has to work. Sounds like a utopia. But why is society broken when you’ve just said you can survive on one salary quite easily? Could it not be that not all women want to be SAHMs and actually do want to work and pursue a career and don’t want to just give that up? You seem to base your views on a nanny in the park saying she can’t afford to have a family but she doesn’t represent all mums. Most mums I know who work wouldn’t want to stay home all day. Many SAHMs want to work and are only at home due to lack of affordable childcare.

Oh things have got worse since we purchased our haven 15 years ago, that’s for sure. Now, we could not have afforded to live in this patch of paradise even with both of us working FT. It is terrible for young people, terrible.

I don't have any safety concerns whatsoever as not only do I live in a very safe area I never go out in the evening anyway (now 61) I only have one son too so not umpteen children or a demanding family life. He is now aged 20 and is lovely. I have no car to run so less paperwork etc and the demanding years are now over. I also have no husband to put up with which is bliss.

Not the case for everyone though. I had no significant blood loss or a cs. One DD has hads had 2 babies. Sailed through pregnancy apart from getting tired at the end, one birth 4 hours the other under 1.5 hours. No stitches no significant blood loss
You may have suffered all this but not everyone does

I don't see how it physically takes a year to recover from pregnancy and birth. Enough people are pregnant again in that sort of time or very close to it.