To think most men wouldn’t survive a year living the life of an average woman?

[ThatRealLimeBee]

The daily grind of sexism, safety worries, juggling expectations, emotional labour… Most men have no idea. AIBU to think they’d crumble under the load if they had to swap lives with us for a year?

But the answer to that isn’t to force ALL women to stay at home though is it? Or to make it that only very high earners can afford to work.

Phew for the last time…..

I don’t personally find looking after my own children, cleaning my own house, gardening and everything else I do difficult. That is because I intrinsically enjoy these things and have the time to do them properly at times of day that best suit me and my own energy levels. Time and energy are not infinite resources.

I would find these things more difficult if I added in paid work. I would worry constantly about my babies/toddlers being in someone else’s care (which I have very personal reasons for). I would hate having to call in sick to work when my children are ill, hate missing any school events, hate not being able to work in the same manner I did pre-children, hate interacting with my children when I’m rushed/tired and grumpy, hate wasting my evenings and weekends with squeezing everything else in that is needed to maintain family life and a family home.

I find looking after children and a home emotionally easier when you have the time to just focus on that. I hate multi-tasking. I am a perfectionist with very high standards. I accept that about myself, I’ve always been like that. I would genuinely drive myself insane trying to do everything at such a high level. Different personalities wouldn’t be like that to the same degree.

FWIW, I don’t believe that you never find looking after your own children difficult.

Nobody has perfect angelic children that never present any challenge ever, and nobody is robotic enough to not feel that sometimes.

Your kids, like all others, must occasionally do things that you don’t like and/or frankly can’t be bothered with.

The idyllic “my children are perfect at all times” world doesn’t exist.

Just because you feel like that doesn’t mean ALL women do… or should.

Still can't address the actual points raised can you.

You're a hypocrite, a misogynist and have extremely poor debating skills. You also change your opinions depending on who you're talking about. Like paid work is a distraction from The One True Purpose of mothering, but only if you don't like the woman doing it. If you like the woman doing it you're proud of them. Absurd.

It's like playing chess with a pigeon, pointless because the pigeon just shits on the board and can't understand how to engage ina game of chess.

The things I find difficult are emotional. We had a very tough start with DC 1’s health, then a different year of health concerns with DC 2. I needed to be very on the ball with all of that, very odd things kept happening which GPs were extremely concerned about and many very detailed hospital appointments and tests were needed to get to the bottom of it. I got very upset at one when I couldn’t remember an exact date about something in case it was important. After going through Covid with DC 1, and at times feeling like we were the only 2 people in the world, I feel I need to be on my guard and ready to step in should their schools shut again in future. I never even realised that could happen, never seen it growing up myself. I also have a lot of concerns about all things iPhones, and feel they will only need closer overseeing as they get older. I have also found meeting the needs of children of different ages tricky at times, but that has eased as both have got older. I will acknowledge I over-think to a greater degree than possibly others do, and I have always admired greatly those of a more naturally relaxed temperament.

@ThankYouNigel I'll leave you with this. https://share.google/Uc1ZFYkOPSMJQ3DRH

If you still the government should stop providing funded childcare after reading this, you are an enemy of women and children. Embrace that and own it. Be proud of your warped ideology and stop dressing it up as choice.

Good day.

There has never been a time in history where every woman who wanted to could stay at home with her kids. Working class women have always had to work, often serving middle and upper class women, allowing them a life of relative leisure. It’s just some 1950s utopia about the ideal mother but it’s never really been obtainable by all.
And anyone CAN stay at home if they like. It’s an idiotic idea because you won’t be able to afford the rent or mortgage and even if you have a rich husband you leave yourself vulnerable on divorce and face the risk of poverty in old age. But if you want to do it, if the nanny wants to do it, crack on.
In Germany, the parental leave is unpaid but you can claim benefits but most people use it to work part time. In Scandinavia, there is a lot of social support and there is even provision for the state to pay people to raise their kids at home. Very very few women take this up. They have the choice but they’d rather work and use the generous state funded childcare. Being a SAHM is not the norm and people would wonder why you didn’t work, much more so than in this country. Because generally staying home for longer than a year or so isn’t really best overall.

In your opinion.

You really think men don't suffer the burden of expectations, or safety worries, or emotional labour? Do you realise men are and historically always have been deemed expendable, hence "women and children only" policy and the fact that men are expected to do the dangerous jobs and put their lives on the line fighting in wars (the gender ratio on battlefield front lines has never been 50/50). I agree that women regrettably still have to suffer a lot of shit at times but that doesn't equate to men having it easy. Try looking at the lower end of the distribution instead of the top end and extrapolating onto everyone else.

https://medium.com/cregox/is-there-anything-good-about-men-by-roy-f-baumeister-d111ba407de3

Well no actually. Not just her opinion.

An international study found that children who spent more time at nursery specifically before the age of three had better educational outcomes and were more adaptable to different social situations than those that stayed at home with a parent.

https://share.google/0hJCauXw5YOgilS3G

Everything you’ve posted has been your opinion with zero evidence to support it. People in glass houses and all that …

I'm surprised the dentist allowed you to take 2 kids under 3 into the surgery while you were unable ( as laying in chair) to control them. Doesn't add up

I needed an emergency filling. I requested a time after my DH finished work- none available, only middle of the day. I would obviously have preferred to go on my own, as it clashed with all our usual lunch/nap routines. My usual dentist on the ground floor was off. No elevator. My then 3 year old walked ahead up the stairs whilst the dental staff helped me carry my then under 1 up the stairs in a pram. My youngest laid in her pram and my eldest sat on a chair looking at books whilst I had the filling done. My children were absolutely amazing and are both very well behaved generally. Thankfully!

Why on earth would anybody lie about this? It happened! I got on with it.

That's a really interesting article.

Too many points to mention but I did find it interesting about the study showing that two young boys will usually welcome a third to play with them whilst two girls will often try and exclude another.

I'm spite of much talk of the sisterhood I've always wondered whether men's success is partly down to the way they seem to be able to work together more naturally than us.

This only refers to educational outcomes, not emotional ones. It also highlights ongoing staffing issues and that staff are not required to be as highly qualified or undertake ongoing professional development like teachers for older children.

You do realise a growing proportion of SAHMs are qualified teachers? Google ‘Missing Mothers’ for more on this- the government are aware and are trying to woo them back (good luck with that! 😂)- they are now much busier and happier ensuring their own children have an excellent start at home and in their local community. They are much more highly educated and excellent speech and language models, as well as being their mother first and foremost.

Early intervention is only really beneficial for a tiny minority of children living in extremely impoverished/neglectful/abusive homes.

Also, far more support used to be provided to mothers at home via fantastic Sure Start centres. It would be great to see more governmental investment in such things (Labour are discussing this, one who knocks on my door who was a SAHP was in complete agreement about this, fab chat).

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7160792/

Strange For example my daughter wasn't allowed to take her 6 year old into an antenatal scan with her and had to arrange seperate childcare

Yes my pregnancy scans were the same, and during covid I wasn’t actually even allowed my husband into the 12 week scan with me. I have regularly taken one or other of my children to GP and hospital appointments for the other. I recently had a GP appointment for myself which both children again came with me to, as I could only get a time after school. This is very normal where I live. My dentist is private/NHS- I don’t really know what else to say, I’d say to ring them and check for yourself but that would be bizarre for us both 😂

This is not proof. It's a not a full scientific study. Read the 'limitations' section.

"The evidence is not conclusive proof that all children under three in nurseries for long periods are always harmed, as the level of proof is mainly associations and not based on randomised controlled trials. However, we cite one systematic review. Most children in nurseries are not affected but as many as 40% may be."

Without randomised controlled trials you can cannot prove causation, the article itself admits the evidence is not proof and in any case, it states most children are not affected. You need better 'proof' than this if you want to prove your point.

Lol. What would you have done though mid filling if the baby cried or 3 year old started playing up?

I think the scan thing is very strange tbh. Especially with slightly older kids. I'm not sure what they'd have expected me to do with eldest if she wasn't us day nursery and I was a sahm when pregnant with the 2nd

Proving links with beneficial educational outcomes is extremely difficult. Many factors influence these (IQ, level of parental engagement, motivation, child’s temperament, quality of school and teachers, behaviour, resilience, attitudes to homework and revision, influence of peer group, etc.), which in the long run have little to do with whether they attended a nursery or not.

In fact, those who are home educated often outperform those in state schools.

And?

I doubt that's true about home educated children.

It is, and I am not someone who home educates- my eldest attends a state school.

I am still not in denial that children who are home educated are often entered for exams early and achieve very highly academically. This is because 1:1 learning is much better as it can be better matched to their current level of learning, and also move at a far faster pace for more able children than a class teacher trying to meet very diverse needs can achieve.

I live in a county where home education is on the increase. This has changed drastically over the past 5 years- I never knew of anyone doing it, now most people I speak to know someone once removed who is doing it. I also notice far more activity slots specifically for home educated children to follow their talents during the day when I am booking my own children’s activities.

I did as much as I could beforehand, so I fed both an early lunch, changed my youngest’s nappy and made sure eldest had been to the toilet. Youngest was very content in her pram, I guess I would have asked the member of staff to rock or jiggle a toy, and ignored minor crying. Eldest had been taught by that age that there are times we need to wait and not interrupt unless urgent, eg during an important phone call. He was brilliant with his books, and it was a quick filling thankfully!

My eldest had a bad run of GP appointments during Reception, youngest attended all of them with us. Actually thinking back, my youngest also came to his hearing assessment clinic appointment- that worked as he could do the listening tasks quietly in one room whilst we watched through a window. So I could see my eldest and he knew I was there, but he could focus on the tasks (really important we weren’t making any background noise- impossible for youngest to be silent).

I did insist that my smear test was during DH’s annual leave- now that really would have been inappropriate to take them to and pretty stressful! 😂