To think most men wouldn’t survive a year living the life of an average woman?

[ThatRealLimeBee]

The daily grind of sexism, safety worries, juggling expectations, emotional labour… Most men have no idea. AIBU to think they’d crumble under the load if they had to swap lives with us for a year?

And Brexit is the absolute mess we all thought it would be. Reform can't afford to deliver those policies. They can raise the threshold all they like, unless they are dishing out big amounts in benefits which they also can't afford low income families will never be able to afford the cost of housing on one wage, let alone all the other expenses on top. Housing in the UK is extortionate. That's why taking away child care keeps people in poverty.

In countries like Germany nursery costs roughly 400 euros a month, roughly 300 pounds. In the UK it costs roughly 1500 pounds on the cheaper end in some cities it's 3000. That's a whole middle class income and more. Without the government subsidising it no woman has any chance of working her way out poverty or even maintaining her career, they simply can't afford to work. But they also can't afford don't to work because life isn't free. The problem isn't with women wanting to work, it's a system that's been made so expensive no one can afford it, but without it women are forced out of work and into poverty. But you really begrudge them that opportunity because it's immoral. Baffling.

Also any right wing party prioritising moving things back to the "good old days" are always bad for women's rights. You only have to see what's happening in America to know that going backwards is bad for women. Voting farage is selling yourself and your daughter's down the river.

they are comical and largely exaggerated - nobody really gives a shit about how someone else does Xmas or washes their sheets or eats for that matter do they????

Hmm, I think a man would be judged more harshly than a woman if he didn't work and just looked after the house. But we get judged in other ways men don't so much.

Didn’t you congratulate me for having supportive grandparents that support us with childcare?

So is it that, or that relying on your parents for support with children is immature and we need to grow up?

Why aren’t you home educating Btw ?
Do you plan to ? How old are your kids?

In your specific case, you clearly need some help. I don’t think anyone would begrudge that after you’ve shared more about your own circumstances.

In my situation, I want to raise my own children, it’s as simple as that. Our parents are dead, we only have my Mum. She spent my entire childhood as a fantastic SAHM for me, she gave me everything I could ever need. She is on her own and cannot afford to not work, so no, I absolutely would never expect or ask her to provide childcare for us bar the odd bit of babysitting/emergencies. She looked after us, now it’s my turn to do the same for my own.

I witness plenty quite frankly (who are not in a situation comparable to yours) taking advantage of their parents and ILs whilst doing nothing but pick fault with them over utter nonsense and showing little gratitude. I find it a bit much.

I am sick of being insulted by people who look down on me as being a ‘dependent’ housewife when actually I have never felt more independent in terms of doing everything personally myself day-to-day. I see people relying on 4 different people to help with their school run- I don’t have anyone, and I get on with it without complaining constantly! We moved out young and haven’t been dependent on our parents for anything since our early 20s. I see many dependent on their parents who are 20 years older, financially, practically and emotionally.

So yeah, I think people should look at themselves more and really consider how truly ‘independent’ they are before insulting housewives! Or are domestic women just an easy target?

So I’m currently not, primarily because my children are extremely happy at school and fortunately are at an excellent local school which stretches them academically (I have kept an extremely close eye on this).

I really admire parents who do home educate, that’s an amazing commitment to their children’s education. I would happily do it, it would be amazing to have that time and follow their interests more closely, but I make decisions based on my children’s needs- they are happy at school, so that’s great!

However, should that change then I wouldn’t hesitate to switch to home educating. I certainly would if I felt they weren’t being adequately challenged and stretched and/or were being bullied, for example.

Oh I couldn’t agree more about the general cost of living TBH- I’m sick of it all!

Well soon enough possibly we’ll all be entirely priced out of ever owning a home, a car, being able to eat, having children at all. Things don’t feel great TBH. I am worried where things will be at by the time our children will be older- I fear their quality of life will be worse.

Huge issues- what’s the answer, who’s got the answers…who knows?!

It's an odd perspective to worry about the COL but choose not to work when your kids are at school. Not meaning that rudely but getting a job would surely help a lot.

Getting a job usually helps to start with, speaking in general

But if it works for them then so what others think? I parenr and do housework to my standards it is not rocket science to get on with things the way that works for me, you or anyone

This endless 'oh I feel so judged' I understand children and teenagers may find but grown women?

Working parents and parents who use grandparents as childcare are also raising their own children.

Part of being a parent is making decisions about what will benefit the family in the short, medium and long term. It’s not about being with them 24/7.

I disagree. Some children are with grandparents every day, more than with their own parents. They’ve already raised their own children and it’s taking them mick. I do hope those parents are ready to do the same for their grandchildren in the future, but judging by the threads on here plenty are saying they won’t be. That’s all take, take, take.

You really need to stop assuming the actions of a small minority apply to the majority. You assume the worst of anyone living a different life to you. All those negative thoughts must be exhausting.

As a working parent who uses grandparents for occasional childcare ( for nights out or weekends away) I am still raising my own child. Some people might use their ‘village’ more than others but in the vast, vast majority of cases the parents are still the ones raising their children.

By your logic your husband isn’t raising his own kids

Yes, you're right. By her logic @ThankYouNigels husband is not raising his own kids. But it's all double standards with her isn't it?

She calls post partum women pathetic for needing help with their toddlers, she says it's disgusting that women are swanning off to gasp the gym! And beauty appointments! While grandparents look after their children! You know she wouldn't bat an eyelid at fathers going to the barbers or the gym and she actually calls nurseries immoral.

It's all so clear that it's all about expecting women to be subservient once they become mothers, all a man has to do is work while a woman shouldn't even expect to get her hair cut until her baby goes to school four years later. It's misogynistic and totally absurd.

Although she calls women weak for needing a break from their own kids which she finds appalling, she overlooks the fact that she gets 30 hours a week break from hers, whilst having no pressure to work so can do as she pleases in that time and says that if she had to work and then do housework on top or god forbid, ask her husband to share the house work with her, it would put strain on her marriage. So she hardly sounds resilient herself. She just thinks it's wrong for women to not be everyone's maid and actually want things for themselves.

Just garden variety internalised misogyny.

And yes, @ThankYouNigel you are dependant on your husband, you only have the cushty life where you come and go as you please and have all the time in the world to ferry kids around because he bank rolls you. Nothing in life is free, you have to pay for it, and if he wasn't paying, you would have to actually work for a living. Working parents pay through the nose for their kids childcare when they aren't available to pick up at certain times or anything else, we certainly aren't relying on any free labour. We aren't dependent on grandparents and most working parents aren't, you just have a very narrow, negative view of them because you want them to be less than you to feel superior.

I’ve got two full time jobs already thanks- Full Time Mother and Professional Housewife. You know, the ones that actually matter.

"Professional Housewife" with capitals and everything. That never stops being funny!

We strongly disagree about what children need and how to raise children. Do you honestly think young children give a stuff about their parent’s qualifications, jobs, hobbies, whatever? No, they live on the moment and care about who is there for them when they need something or are upset.

I would never, ever have dropped a baby or toddler at a nursery, left them there screaming and crying until they were sick (and yes, people have told me this has happened- I listen in utter horror) or subdued until submission, and been able to go about my day feeling like a good person. No wonder people bang on about the inaccurate need for babies to ‘socialise’ to minimise the emotional harm they are causing, and actually damage to their neural brain connections. Cannot wait for this to change!!!

Oh and there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop me living my life exactly how I want and thinking exactly what I like- so deal with it!!!

Well I’m here mortgage-free enjoying my immaculate home and delightful children reaping the rewards of my wise choice 😊🥂👏🏻

Careful @ThankYouNigelyour disdain towards working women and mothers is on full display here.

and I’ll say it again, housewife isn’t a profession.
It doesn’t require professional or formal qualifications, you don’t have a professional body, you aren’t required to keep your CPD up to date etc.

Trying to make it into something it isn’t is undermining your cause because you sound ridiculous.

And?

I might not be mortgage free but I have a shit hot house in a gorgeous part of the world. It’s immaculate as well. We could have been mortgage free a while ago but chose to invest in a property in our dream location. Something we couldn’t have done on one income.
So my delightful child is reaping the rewards of a duel income household.

So not sure what point you’re trying to make?

When you are mortgage free - you’ll have contributed to it too.

You choosing to be a housewife is cool. You describing yourself as a "Professional Housewife" is a fascinating mix of comical and cringeworthy.

Do your red clown nose and big shoes get in the way when you're rearranging your children's wall art?

Stop being ridiculous.

My child has been absolutely screaming the house down this morning because he wants toast, but also doesn’t want anyone to leave his eyesight to make toast, or to have to wait the required length of time it takes to make it.

Would you like to impart some Full Time Mother wisdom on how to make toast without a toaster? Professional Housewife knowledge on how to literally be in two places at once?

Young children “give a stuff” about being fed and cared for, flashy toys/messy play/whatever they’re into, and the playground. Ours also cares about toilet brushes.

They have nowhere near the knowledge or nuance to care if your radiators have been bleached, if you’ve diarised your loads of washing for the week, or if you’ve written yourself a to do list of good housewifery.

You’re not a full time mother - your kids are somewhere else 30hrs a week. It’s laziness dressed up as purpose. Nothing more and nothing less.

Nobody is trying to stop you living your life the way you want to. Stop being so dramatic. The problem is YOU trying to stop other women making a different choice to you. I hate to break it to you but nurseries aren’t going anywhere so you need to just accept that.

Just own your choice instead of trying to justify it by putting other people down. It just makes you sound like a complete dick tbh.
It is possible to have different views and still be respectful.

Do you say these out loud to people in real life? If so I can’t imagine you have many friends.