To think most men wouldn’t survive a year living the life of an average woman?

[ThatRealLimeBee]

The daily grind of sexism, safety worries, juggling expectations, emotional labour… Most men have no idea. AIBU to think they’d crumble under the load if they had to swap lives with us for a year?

That’s not something I’ve come across. Seems like more hyperbole from you tbh.
Acknowledging that having a baby can negatively impact your career doesn’t mean you see your child as a burden.

Child, and his needs were too high to access childcare. He couldn’t cope with the unfamiliarity. Grandparents, both sets, took turns on other days, and nobody in my house works weekends.

We also don’t use holiday clubs or anything of that sort over the summer. Same reason.

I work 60hr+ weeks term time, so that I can work 20 over the holidays, and the remainder is still (fortunately) … grandparents.

What planet are you on? I'm not telling anyone they can't have babies FFS.

I'm pointing out you that you can't claim having and raising your children is a public service due to falling birthrates. Because we actually don't need them. They are a personal choice, not a public service.

Choose to have 7 if you want! I don't care! Just don't try and claim you're doing us all an important service by having them!

I’m genuinely pleased for you that you have support from grandparents. They are all of your family, family is everything. Really pleased they help you and your family.

You let other people see your children after 3pm?!

Wreckless parenting.

To claim that our society no longer needs babies is farcical.

You're confused about a lot of things!

I work full time over four days, so does my husband, we are both at home three different days a week, daughter goes to nursery for 15 hours a week just so she can social and play with other children and grow her confidence and independence.

We both work equally, contribute to costs the home equally and parent equally and our daughter is certainly not "farmed out to poorer women". The fact you can't imagine such a setup shows how blinkered you are.

😂😂😂
DS specifically asks to go to after school clubs… perhaps it’s a reflection of my terrible parenting 🤷🏼‍♀️😂

To claim that being a SAHM is a public service is farcical.

Especially when other people manage to produce well raised children and do other things too.

I mean. They don’t really do much, for ages.

You should count yourself very fortunate that you have a husband and are not a single parent, and that you both have such flexible jobs. You do realise that some women have husbands who work away either in the UK or abroad for the majority of the week? Who work long hours with PT/flexible working requests denied? Etc.

We take ours to breakfast club.

We tell people it’s because it helps his transition into the school day, really I just cba feeding him.

Is that because you're distracted by paid work? Do you just forget you have a child sometimes? 😂

😂😂Not gonna lie, I really miss the fact that nursery would give him his breakfast

Have you seen the cost of bread?!

We do actually feed him before school, because he wakes up at 4am. Really his breakfast at school is lunch.

I start work at 7, take him for the delegated bread, and then resume my distraction 😂.

I don’t know anyone who has issues with sexism or safety worries.

you say that...

but my SAHM friends are the one who took my kids on inset days or election days, they are the one who volunteered at school to do essential things like reading, they are the ones who took the class to their swimming lesson- state school can't afford coaches for these.

So while I don't think women should even have a child to even justify to stay at home when their parter supports them, or that you have any obligation to do any volunteering at school, SAHM can be very useful for working mothers.

Reading this thread, all I can think is ‘the patriarchy have done really well out of us..’

Theyve made us believe that equality means being doing the same.
Thats not equality. Equality is being respected and treated as equals, when differences are taken into account. And there are differences.

It’s the differences which mean human society carries on with the new generations. That women can birth new life. Now that doesn’t fit very well with capitalisms need for quick growth and productivity does it? No business or society really wants long maternity ‘leave’, members of society who opt out of building business revenue because they are caring for other family members etc etc. Imagine if maternity leave wasn’t called that but was called ‘next person creation’ or something! The whole system is prioritizing monetary gains and does not value input into society in other ways. Everybody should have these choices to make and be rewarded in ways that are representative of their efforts.

And we wonder why this stupid bickering between ‘working’ women and SAHMs comes up all the time on here… the truth is- everyone on both sides is working. If you believe those that aren’t being paid a salary are worth less than you; you’re so so mistaken. Equally if you think the other side aren’t doing their bit; that’s also not true.

The individual posts on these threads are just rampant with jealous and own personal insecurity; on both sides. I feel everyone is missing the point ~ which is really about the control of women to the benefit of society; whose focus in recent times, has been solely to make more money.

You should count yourself very fortunate you have a husband and aren't a single parent.

Something tells me if your husband left and you suddenly had bills to pay on your own you would struggle a lot more than I would.

what is so hypocritical is that many people could not survive on a part-time jobs if they were not financially supported by their partner. I know many who work just enough to pay for luxury family holidays. It's great, but judging someone because they don't do a couple of hours here and there is ridiculous.

A very dear friend of mine is a stay-at-home wife, I suppose. Never worked in a paid job in her life, never wanted children. Some posters on here would faint 😂

Genuinely thank you SO much for this post! I feel seen. It means a lot. These types of things you mention do happen, and are often go so unnoticed. Thank you for acknowledging such efforts to help. What a lovely friend to your friends.

They come from a sincere desire to help others. I am really pleased to help my friends who work in such ways whilst they are helping in other varied ways by working.

It’s funny how when women work it’s for luxuries whereas men are providing for their family 🙄

Hi op, I feel like this discussion is so strange.

I feel almost like you were asking, is feminism and women's oppression still a legitimate recognised philosophy? Do we feel it, do we live it, does it hurt us, does it hold us back?

And lots of posters have answered no. There seems to be no common experience. Only division, working mums, SAHM's, unpaid care work. Ironic as the discussion you tried to prompt was about how some men behave and their inability to work with their partners for equality in their home lives. Post after post on mumsnet addresses many of these same issues?

Post feminist discussion, in the midst of threads that are all about women being treated unfairly.

What do you think op?

Is this largely a class issue? More economic freedom means more freedom at home, outsourcing, flexible working patterns? Working class women less likely to be able to afford these choices, less progressive ideas? No, not because working class people are stupid but because the status quo works best when people are stressed about money, working longer hours, less perks, not much hope of promotion, they have less freedom and possibilities. Their voices seem largely absent from this discussion?

These are just ideas and I am thinking out loud.

I just know that if women did not work so hard (regardless of if they work outside the home as well) many children would be sad, lonely and neglected, they paper over the cracks and it can be exhausting.

You are a fantastic friend for recognising that you and your friend can bond, share and talk about so many other things together. I’m sure your friendship has flourished due to such mutual respect.

IRL my best friend is completely the opposite to me. She works FT in a really demanding career. She is a fantastic mother of 3 children. She has many varied passion projects and interests. I adore her, I am so proud of what she has achieved career-wise.

This is excellent and interesting thinking out loud.

I agree that class comes into play, I agree that the voices of working class women are missing here, and would also love to learn more about their experiences.