I couldn’t sleep last night, worrying about a Reform government

[Cluborange666]

I am really worried. I think they’ll wreck the economy. I’ve got a few years left to pay off my mortgage from my job that deals with immigrants. I don’t want our pensions to tank. I don’t want my sons’ lives to be messed around. I worry about more racism, the more ‘voice’ that Reform get. I live in a very multicultural city and non-white people tell me that they are experiencing more overt racism. It makes me feel very insecure about the future.

wish Labour would do more to show that they are on the side of ordinary people as I think that’s what is driving this (I’m a Labour voter). I don’t think the creation of Your Party will help, just give Reform more advantages.

Sigh. Happy to be told I’m unreasonable as I think the future looks bleak.

"Tragic combination of gullability, desperation and lack of critical thinking" I feel exactly the same about some Labour voters.

I don’t think so. There’s a problem, people are aware of it and politicians are mostly telling them they are extreme. Of course that won’t work and make people angry.

Do you like Corbyn’s party, Reformers like and trust him more than they do Starmer.

So which of those things that you've listed do you think the Conservatives did better?

Yes but that is list of how Labour lost your vote.

What specific Reform policies have made you think you'll vote for them? What are they going to do about poverty for example, which, considering the country is experiencing levels of wealth inequality last seen in the Victorian era, surely you'd agree this is something a political party should be addressing?

No if Reform get to form a government it will be the fault of the people who voted for them.
I don’t believe somebody who normally votes labour because their view is a sort of centre/left outlook would ever vote to the right.
I have occasionally voted green when unhappy with the Labour Party of the day. They at least have a left wing ideology so that’s where my protest vote would go.

I'm sure they are. They still have to win over 300 seats to get into power.

I think the economy was beginning to improve under Rishi, I think a deterrent for migrant crossings was more effective than an imaginary elite gang busting team. It wasn't that I thought they had all the answers, just that they had the better manifesto and they hadn't demonstrated themselves capable of gaslighting members of their own party because they would fall in line about gender discourse.

I hadn't predicted Labour would be as bad as this though, this is dreadful.

But you still haven't said what policies Reform have that has swung your vote? If they formed a government (terrifying prospect) why would the UK be, "Somewhere over the rainbow"?

@ThePhantomoftheEcobubbleOpera I agree that Labour are pretty dreadful in many ways so far. I still won't be voting for Reform though.

Nor will I, but I won't be insulting those who do vote for Reform nor will I be ignoring the Labour mess while their supporters make bogeymen out of these othered voters.

Yep, I agree.

So where do we go from here? We can double down in our tribes and hurl insults back at the ones we feel are insulting us, and emotionally or reflexively support the policies that various politicians put to us to assauge that sense of insult. Or we can sit down and analyse those policies, and the actual position and agenda of the politicians promoting them, and proceed accordingly.

Farage is a privileged multi millionaire who wants to see a Britain with a much smaller state and smaller tax regime, particular when it comes to tax on those who already have wealth, like him. When you consider Reform's policies as a whole - including the massive reduction in government revenues, privatisation of healthcare etc. and not just the reduction in immigration which is somehow supposed to make up for it all - the only result can be the destruction of the services upon which many people depend, a greater difficulty for most people to make up the difference in the private sector (due to weaker trade unions, greater deregulation of corporations etc.) and a consequent humungous increase in inequality.

I get that many people are crying out for SOMETHING, and I agree that Starmer's Labour ain't it. But Brexit wasn't it, Johnson's "levelling up" wasn't it and this ain't it either.

Oh, clearly you have a faulty reformdar.

I don’t mind assessing policies and will do at the next GE. I even read Corbyn’s statement with interest.

I think they all need to set out their stall and see what happens. Reform might get in, idk

So far there’s an increasing problem motivating more people.

I voted Reform in the GE and local elections and will do so again .
My worry is whether there will be any evony left by the time they get in which I hope will be at the next GE

Sorry, I keep forgetting that the internet is not a great vehicle for sarcasm.

What I meant was that "If Reform come into government and royally fuck everything up it will be blamed on the woke left. And immigrants. And people will believe it.

Starmer is a privileged millionaire too!

Starmer is certainly to the right of Corbyn but in some ways - not all - this is a significantly left-wing government, certainly if you compare it to Blair’s New Labour.

The problem Starmer has is that it’s North London dinner party left, not pit village left.

Starmer is destroying Labour with his stupidity, his woodenness and his appalling voguish politics.

And as a figurehead Starmer has none of the charisma and brains of Blair or Johnson, the genuineness of Brown or Major or Sunak, or the backbone of Thatcher. He’s a weedy little unlikeable man with nothing in his mind apart from misplaced self-promotion and ambition.

This is such a bad way to decide. It’s how we got the ludicrous tool maker nonsense and now Starmer is in.

Corbyn isn’t poor either.

The whipping up of what the spouses do or parents is so trite and unhelpful. Look at the policies. I agree with you.

Starmer is certainly to the right of Corbyn but in some ways - not all - this is a significantly left-wing government, certainly if you compare it to Blair’s New Labour.

In what ways?

I am sorry 😀, totally misunderstood.

Of course you are correct. They will need to blame somebody, because unfortunately what Reform propose is unworkable without massive spending cuts which will make austerity look like a walk in the park.

There is a part of me that would like to see them win just to prove the point but as we see from Brexit the voters for that still believe it’s a good idea despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

i am pleased to see Starmer trying to rebuild our relationship with the EU, if we remove trade barriers we may see the growth that we need.

Trump’s seesawing on tariffs however is playing havoc globally, stock markets falling and rising on his whims, he and his friends will be rubbing their hands together with glee at the billions they are making. At the expense of other countries’ economies.

Tax policy. Trade union rights. A lack of any real willingness to tackle out-of-control welfare (Blair spoke out about that recently). Energy policy. Israel. Until the Supreme Court put the mockers on it, trans rights.

There are other things. But you can look them up yourself.

That is a silver lining from the Labour win at least. The gap between expectation and reality.

Yes and no. Like it or not, people are influenced by PR and image. In many cases much more than they are by policies.

So when politicians try so hard to project an image that makes people think they're "on their side" - whether it's Johnson the good-natured bumbler with the funny hair, or Farage the ordinary bloke down the pub with the cigar and pint - it's reasonable to point out that what those politicians are aiming to achieve probably has to do with something altogether different than most people's best interests. And then have that in mind as you examine the policies.

I'm going to respond differently to Farage talking about what's good for working people than I am to Mick Lynch doing it.

What do you mean?

Me too but probably not in the same way as you do. I can’t stand ML.

That’s politics to an extent, how they come across does count. But the tool maker stuff was sheer nonsense and I can’t believe people actually bought into it.

The media rounds on Sunak’s wife damaged his standing and totally unrelated to policy.

We ended up with Starmer which is suboptimal.

I actually think Corbyn is looking better than before PR-wise. He won’t get in power but he and his party could get quite a few votes.