To vote for Jeremy Corbyn’s new party over Reform

[Bunion8]

Just wondering how people here are feeling politically these days — especially those who are disillusioned Starmer and the Tories.

With Reform UK gaining momentum and Jeremy Corbyn & Zarah Sultana launching a new left-wing party I’m curious:
If you had to choose between the two, which would you be more likely to vote for — and why?

I know they’re obviously very different politically, but both seem to be tapping into dissatisfaction with the status quo. Reform appeals to those who feel let down by immigration policy, the economy and ‘woke’ culture, while Corbyn’s party is focused on wealth inequality, public ownership, Gaza, and climate justice.

Would love to hear where people stand — especially if you don’t usually vote, or have changed political allegiances recently.

YABU - Vote Reform
YANBU - Vote JC

Assuming Zack Polanski becomes leader of the Green Party then I’d vote for them.

If forced to choose the OPs options the Corbyn’s party by a mile. Would never ever vote Reform as they want to erode worker’s rights and in particular women’s protections.

I’ve been a teacher for 35 years, state and private, and I have a child who was state educated. It’s a tiny niche issue affecting very few - and VAT is dwarfed by price rises in the last decade anyway. You think it’s worth sacrificing not just yours, not just those of a few private school children, but everyone’s human rights and healthcare for?
Impressive levels of self absorption there.

You have the choice not to vote for racist, sexist grifters who want to take everything from you. You think Labour have made a mess (leaving aside that the mess isn’t theirs for the most part)? Wait until you see Refom (I hope you never have to).
Stating you have ‘no choice’ but to vote for racists is a proper cop out.

Fine if that’s how you perceive it - but to vote for Reform instead? Nobody would do that unless they were either a) racist or b) ok with promoting racism.

This is how Labour are getting on with the manifesto commitments. It’s nonsense to say no party delivers on those promises.
https://pledgeprogress.co.uk

VAT on school fees.
Plus ‘what’s happening in SEND’ is a review. Stop believing the scare stories in the press. It happens over and over.

I agree. But you can’t do that or the press scream ‘U Turn’ or ‘lost control’. Unless you are Tory or Reform, in which case they ignore it.

I would never ever vote for Jeremy Corbyn. I would vote for Reform because of JC being in the ballot.

Jeremy Corbyn is a joke of a politician. Wouldn’t last 10 minutes in charge of a Scout troop let alone a country. It would be a wasted vote.

Having said that, your alternative is extremely unpalatable 🤷🏼‍♀️

Both abhorrent choices

But it does impact state schools + kids;

• any money raised isn't going to state schools
• increased pressure on state schools
• in year transfers = schools don't get that money until next year

FYI my child went to state and will go back to state for 6th form.
I care about ALL education but this "niche" policy is disproportionately impacting lower income and SEND kids. All due to ideology! Labour aren't improving state education at all, they are hiding behind 60p slices of soggy toast × diluted juice and claim to have ended child poverty!

We are now the only country in the world to tax education and are ideologically behind Nigeria FFS!

I disagree @twistyizzy
I don’t think the impact on state schools is what you say. The numbers just don’t support it. It has no affect on the vast majority of children. And has been said repeatedly VAT is a drop in the ocean compared or over inflation rises in fees in recent years.
The money may or may not eventually end up supporting state ed, that I accept.

Is it so important that you would risk everyone’s human rights or healthcare for? That will definitely affect lower inc9me and SEND kids, Don't you think?

I think the poster means the families where no one has worked for generations, not for any real reason other than that’s not what has been modelled to them by their parents and it’s just not an option they consider. I think unless you’ve first hand experience of it/exposure to it, it’s hard to imagine. We arent talking someone who has a job but does the bare minimum. We are talking whole generations of families where no one has ever worked or tried to find a job. There’s a difference.

I know you disagree but it's important to me as I'm seeing the direct impact on children.
You don't even know the data as government aren't releasing it so of course the impact looks negligible.

Fundamentally it puts us as only country in the world whose government raises revenue through the education of children. That's simply a fact.

I'm not going to debate this ad nauseum as already done it.

Ultimately education is #1 issue for me. I want Labour out and the only other party who can do that where I live is Reform.

I get that @twistyizzy , I really do. We all have things that are important to us. I can understand your desire to get out a party you feel are damaging things you care about, even if I disagree.
What I’m saying really is that choosing to vote Reform risks something much, much worse, even for the groups you care about most. You see it as a bit of a protest maybe, getting rid of one MP, but Brexit shows us what a disaster protest voting can be.

@cardibach If you could compress your disagreements with my views into one post rather than several, it would be helpful.

I am neither a) a racist or b) a promoter of racism.
I was not referring to a SEND review, I was referring to the children with SEND who have lost out due to PS VAT policy (which should NEVER have included these children).
I have not read any 'scare stories' in the papers. I have a child with SEN and value the choice that independent schools offer these children.

It's quite something that you are still prepared to come out to bat for this Labour government. Do you really think the pledge tracker you regularly post will help Labour retain power? Your reality is obviously quite removed from what many are experiencing.

What a pointless thread. Have fun.

I’m not so much batting for Labour here as trying to point out how much worse Reform are. I agree alabour have made some bad calls.
I didn’t compress the points because I was responding to separate posts and hadn’t even noticed they were by the same poster.

There's an obvious problem here about discussing whether we'd vote for "Jeremy Corbyn's new party" that I'm surprised nobody seems to have noticed. That is that (a) the party doesn't even exist yet, and certainly hasn't published any concrete policies, and (b) we don't actually know yet that Jeremy Corbyn is going to be the leader of it.

But some people are sufficiently turned off just by the connection with the Corbyn "brand" that that's all they need to hear. Fair enough I suppose - I feel the same way about Farage.

In terms of general political philosophy, trajectory and values, which is all we can say currently, you need to decide which you think promises a better future:

Reform:
Reduced tax, particularly on high earners / the asset-wealthy
Reduced immigration
Privatised healthcare
Almost complete destruction of the welfare state, public services, state funded education etc. (Farage doesn't SAY this, obviously, but it's the inevitable consequence of reducing the tax take, reducing working age immigration and trying to fund an aging population).

Overall, likely massive rise in inequality, with a small number of rich people becoming even richer and a large number of poor people becoming destitute. For the middle classes, it's hard to determine the effect on them personally. Some of it will come down to values (is it more important to you to aspire to join the rich, or to help protect the poor?)

Oh... And complete meltdown of the climate into unsurvivable termperatures due to abandoning all attempts to transition to a green economy, along with the broader geopolitical catastrophe engendered by that (millions of people from the global south fleeing their countries that are no longer habitable and seeking refuge elsewhere; countries increadingly turning to authoritarianism and militarism to find answers to surviving climate change that the current, fragile system of international cooperation fails to provide).

Your Party:
Serious, funded effort to protect and revive public services, particularly the NHS being kept free at the point of use.
Continued relaxed attitude to immigration.
Restored/increased workers' rights through more powerful unions etc.
Increase tax burden on the rich and upper middle classes to pay for all this (although it's too early to tell whether that will be via higher income tax, or a shifting of the tax burden to wealth taxes / corporation tax / CGT / IHT etc.
Possible nationalisation of water companies, utilities etc.

Reduction in inequality, with a higher and more secure economic "floor" that we accept everyone is entitled to. Harder for the rich to stay rich or for the middle classes to become rich.

Proper action to transition to a green economy, possibly in cooperation with the Green party itself (there have been noises about this), joining up with a more liberal attitude to foreign aid & immigration to help address the effect of climate change on the global south.

That's my tentative, unbiased summary 😃

And last election also shows how bad a protest vote can be. A large share of Labour's votes came from (quote rightly) an anti-Tory sentiment rather than Pro-Labour.
I would be throwing my vote away to vote for anyone other than Reform. Labour have lost most of the Red Wall to Reform. There is no alternative in those areas if you want Labour out.

Farage has already said something along the lines of SEND being over diagnosed, he would be cutting funding for SEND because it creates an unfair playing field and it’s parenting that is the problem rather than disability/ND. He said this when reform won the council elections when talking about spending cuts. And God help them when they try to enter the workforce with his ideology. I don’t think you’ve thought it through very well. He works from the same playbook as the orange one.

Even if he, by some absolute miracle, went against all he has indicated previously on the matter and improved education, that does not negate all the other abhorrent things he advocates for that would affect you. I think if reform ever did win an election, you’d be begging for mercy in the end.

I would be throwing my vote away to vote for anyone other than Reform. Labour have lost most of the Red Wall to Reform. There is no alternative in those areas if you want Labour out.

Genuine question: What have this Labour government not done that voters in the red wall expected them to do, and think Reform will do better?

#1 immigration
#2 they have done nothing to address North/South divide. Labour are 100% liberal metropolitan elite. They have no interest in Northern voters
#3 Rotherham grooming gangs. Denied calls for national enquiry and their MPs + councillors are caught up in the mire of it all. Same with many Northern WC areas

Labour lost Durham to Reform. A Labour controlled/majority share for over 100 years!

.

Delusional, comes to mind.