I'm literally ready to scream. Girl with irritating mother pt 2

[Balloonhearts]

No, this time I really am going to drown myself in the rain butt. Unsupervised minors be damned.

Link to previous thread for those who don't know what I'm ranting about. www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5359192-really-irritated-with-this-girls-mother?latest=1

So Summer riding club started yesterday. Girl from previous thread is enrolled and in my group.

Firstly her mother has signed her up AGAIN with the wrong weight on her form. And a note in the Need to Know section saying 'No large horses.' Obviously we realised and assigned her the correct size horse for her height, weight and experience. They got on swimmingly, Carol (The horse) is very sweet and biddable and excellent with beginners.

Mum came to get her yesterday and did her nut.

Now admittedly Carol does have quite a fast extended trot, which the girl, I'll call her S, was rising beautifully to. It's easier when going faster. More impulsion, means a bigger upwards assist and she has pretty much cracked her rising trot yesterday. She was happy, beaming and full of confidence. Not unhappy with her assigned mount in the least.

Anyway, mum went off on one about having requested no large horses and her wishes being ignored. First of all Carol isn't large. She is a 15.3 Thoroughbred with quite a dainty build. Not big or intimidating at all.

Mum insisted on a smaller horse today. This is difficult because S is both tall and heavy. Most of the ponies can carry a max of 10 stone and, again, we need to reshuffle riders to accommodate this.

The only one small enough to accommodate her is a 14hh cob called Mickey. He can carry her but neither of them are particularly comfortable. She has her stirrups hiked up to be able to apply aids correctly. This is throwing off her centre of balance and making her rising trot difficult and Mickey unbalanced. She's too long in the leg for riding him to be comfortable and with a weak core to start with, she is struggling.

Mickey is also a bit of a twat. If his rider is annoying him, he bucks. He's really more an intermediate horse than beginner. He's sweet natured but easily annoyed by an unsteady leg.

Today has mostly been teaching her to sit a buck, with limited success as Mickey is nothing if not persistent. She is not enjoying him at all.

Are we really unreasonable to tell this woman bluntly at pickup to either wind her neck in and leave the horse choosing to us or find somewhere else to ride?

I feel awful for S as she's a lovely kid and clearly mortified by her mums behaviour.

Yes you need to tell the mum straight.
I used to ride a smaller horse who sounds like Mickey, constantly bucking. In the end I felt nervous to ride. If she’s more suited to Carol, then that’s who she should have.

p.s. Is the horse actually called Carol? 🤣

Does she really want to put her daughter on a pony where she is guaranteed to hit the deck or does she want to put her on a horse that she rides well and feels safe on?! She is going to destroy her confidence at this rate. It's not about how far you fall when you come off, it's about riding something that you can handle well enough NOT to come off!

She is one of these idiots that thinks ponies are safer than horses, isn't she? We had an evil little 12.2 welsh that would have put you through a wall if you rode him badly. Looked sweet and adorable, bucked like a bastard.

I don't know how the mum gets to insist. She doesn't know anything about horses and doesn't even know her own DD's measurements. Use the wording you quoted from the PP and set her straight. Needn't be rude but absolutely be firm - that her DD's height and weight is X and Y so she needs Z horse or she won't be safe. As proven by the issues with the smaller horse today. You are the expert and you have no agenda except the safety and enjoyment of the children and the horses. She has an agenda based on fear and delusion. You can't pander to that. She needs to hear the truth and back the fuck off. As of now.

Are we really unreasonable to tell this woman bluntly at pickup to either wind her neck in and leave the horse choosing to us or find somewhere else to ride?

No, you’re not, but you were told you’re not by 97% of the people on your last thread, so not sure what a second thread is going to achieve.

As mum is in denial about her daughters weight she probably equates smaller horse with smaller daughter.

Is the mum also large? Sometimes there's a link there (as having an overweight child equals the mum having to accept she herself is also obese).

I'f yo haven't al;erady, I'd tell her straight exactly how heavy her daughter is and why that and height determines horse selection, along with riding ability and horse personality. If she argues her daughter isn't heavy, offer to show her and diplomatically ask child to get on the scales so you can explain to her mum why she needs to be riding Carol (who I'm guessing she's keen on after 4 bucks off Mickey)

Otherwise its "find another riding school, and don't lie about her weight to them either".

Poor kid, all she wants to do is have a nice ride.

She is literally taking the Mickey…

Do you have some thing in your T&Cs that says that the final decision on appropriate horses will be made by the stables? For both the rider and the horse’s safety and well-being? This would then remove the conversation about refunds in situations like this.

You are the expert. You make the call. Unapologetically.

She's fallen off four times?? That's so dangerous. You'll have to explain to Mum why smaller isn't necessarily safer. After four falls, I'd be telling her that her daughter either takes the horse you experts deem safest for her, both in build and temperament, or you cannot accept her as a student on safety grounds.

The problem isn’t really the mum it’s the stable owner not letting you have these conversations with the mum.

Blimey. I am a bit scared of horses and know nothing about them. In this situation i would most definitely be taking your advice on what was best for my DD. Not making ridiculous demands which are actually making her less safe. You really need to lay it out thick for her.

You need to go old school riding school and just tell the mum in no uncertain terms who is boss.
I can’t imagine any of the mums at my childhood riding school daring to question the riding instructor decisions. Channel that energy!

Nothing to do with horse riding but I sometimes have to tell paying clients their plans are so daft I will not do them as I would be at risk professionally. There are ways of saying this politely and if you run a business you need to develop these skills op.

Do you have insurance? What is the situation if the girl comes off and breaks something? Would you be responsible or would the owner? Remember that the girl can sue you herself when she reaches 18, is she has a life-changing injury in your care.

Why you have allowed this charade to carry on for this long makes you unreasonable already tbh. Does your insurance cover riders lying about weight? Especially if you know it's a lie.

You need to put the horse's welfare first instead of making Mickey stressed and uncomfortable with a rider who is too big.

At the moment you prioritising this woman's money over the horse.

Support everything others have said. At the end of the day it's a safety thing - if Mickey bucks her off & she hurts herself mother will blame you.

Honestly people like this who think horses are machines not sentient beings with feelings etc should never be around animals. 😡

Are you the teacher?
Then teach.
You set the parameters of that lesson.

I know that you don't want to disappoint or humiliate the girl. The first is not the end of the world, obviously do everything you can to avoid the latter.

The mum is being unreasonable and you have to protect your animals and the girl from anything you deem to be unsafe or unreasonable. I am surprised you have gone to such lengths already as this is the second occasion.

As someone who knows nothing about horses or horse riding, I cannot imagine the audacity of someone like me coming in there and trying to tell people who do know about horses and horse riding what to do. It would have been a flat no from me.

My dd used to do a week of pony camp every summer holiday. The amount of verbiage they had before sign up, during sign up, and the night before that the students and parents did not pick horses bordered on the ridiculous. There was a good reason for it though.

its healthier for the horse if the side and weight matches. She is safer on a horse whose size matches hers. She is safer on a horse who is comfortable. You know all of this. Be firm with her mother. Explain if necessary, but you don’t need to compromise here.

The worst thing that happens isn’t a bad review online, it’s someone getting hurt. You can counteract one bad review if it comes to that. An injury is something you want to avoid morally, but it can also destroy a business.

You're the expert. Her mother can like it or lump it.

I agree and was going to say the same thing, surely the riding school has a policy and that the mum who clearly has no knowledge of horses needs to listen to you as a teacher.

Who actually owns the riding school as you did mention somewhere that the manger said to give it a go - have they witnessed the girl on the horse and can you say you do not feel comfortable now teaching her on the pony?

Tell her you are the instructor, you are giving the lesson and the decisions about which riders get which horses are yours and yours alone. Say when riding Carol the child was showing huge improvement in posture and skill, but on Mickey she was cramped and sending him the wrong signals so will not improve and is likely to be bucked off even more as the horse gets confused. Tell her it is Carol or a refund.