To think The West is morally bankrupt

[Elrae]

America democratically elects an adjudicate rapist who sympathises with racists, hates women and will do anything to hang onto power. The UK and it's lickspitrlw leader fawn over Trump and says that Israel has rhe right to cut off food and water to Gaza. Then wairs a year watching children die before saying it is intolerable. Except he is tolerating it.We all are.
The West is pumping out carbon at a vast rate and will no doubt reject the flood of refugees that this will cause.
The West takes more than it's fair share of the world's wealth. Much of the West is based on colonial exploration and murder of the global south.
I used to think we were the good guys.
We are not. We are one of the worst things ever to happen to the planet and it's inhabitants.

I think it adds quite a bit to the discussion. You’re talking about how terrible the UK and the west in general is and, while I have my own opinions on that, I understand that you’d like to live elsewhere. Fair enough. But what you’re really saying is ‘Sod this, I’m doing my best to live in a better country’. Well, what better country? Are there any better countries? Because they all have their problems different from but equivalent to here. Most of them also have terrible pasts and have inflicted harm on their own people and people from other countries and cultures. So how do you expect anyone to take your criticism of the UK seriously, and agree with you, when you’ll be jumping from one crap place to another crap place?

It’s not the west. It’s humanity. Humans are capable of terrible things. And to pretend otherwise, and talk like non western countries would be utopias if only the west had left them alone is the sort of black and white thinking I’d expect from someone much younger.

To my mind it is the "progressive" mindset that's on its way out -most of these people seem to be boomers - you only have to look the climate and Palestine protests to see old wealthy white people over represented. I had an argument with one yesterday she was banging on about how she'd campaigned for South Africa in the 80s and was now obsessed about "Palestine." I think most of the youth (I have 4 young adult,children so have observed) are not very political but once things get alot tougher in the next few years they'll turn sharply right.

I think you are wrong. What men are good at is being the biggest thing in a room or discussion they are rarely better at problem solving or multitasking.

Oh well @Ohthatsabitshit, sod scientific research or thousands of years of evolution, because you have a hunch!

This is mumsnet watch the brainwashed numpties cream hamas!

oh but the Rothchilds are great, Palestine was hardly Britain’s to give away (JFK) , and lots of lies about war on terror and their bums start twitching because it’s all hamas but deep down They know the west is corrupt. I’m a westerner too but at least I can see it’s morally corrupt

Please, stop making things up. I haven’t said anywhere that the UK or West is terrible. I have also acknowledged that nowhere is perfect and that other places have their problems too.

i think you’re wrong. It is the youth that is leading the change very much, the campus sit ins one example of this. Your 4 kids are hardly an accurate representation of what the youth is doing or going to do.

There can't be many countries in the world that haven't been colonised at some point. Greece isn't an utterly dysfunctional hellhole and was colonised until relatively recently. The Netherlands, Singapore, South Korea; all doing well. Germany and Japan had a good go at carving up much of the world just a few decades ago, did unspeakable things, and yet we managed to move forwards with them instead of constantly expecting sackcloth and ashes.

One wonders why so many people are invested in looking backwards when 21st century colonisation is all about China, Russia and Iran? There are Russian mercenaries massacring whole villages of people in parts of Africa now. There are children working as virtual slaves in Chinese-owned mines in Africa now. Iran has infested whole swathes of the Middle East with its warmongering, murdering jihadis now. Let's drag our thinking to current and future problems.

I'm sure others have pointed this out already but re climate change and greenhouse gas emissions/pollution I think you'll find the worst offender is actually China.... Apparently China, USA, South Korea and Iran make up almost 50% of emissions - the US is the only western country of those.

@Magicpaintbrush ,

But a lot of the west have conveniently offshored their carbon emissions. We all want the manufactured goods, but we don’t want to be a part of manufacturing them.

Trump says he does, but I think he is talking from both sides of his mouth here. Does he really want the manufacturing or being able to both offshore manufacturing and then tax it?

You’re missing the point.

We all know our history. Nobody is denying the harm we caused, or continue to cause. The point is that it’s ridiculous to dislike the west or think it’s morally bankrupt when every country in the world has done, or is doing, exactly the same thing. Why single out the west for this self hatred? Of course we’re not ‘the good guys’. The point is that there are no ‘good guys’. You’re not special because you know what we all know.

Why do you and a few other posters keep hectoring this poster on the same point? She doesn't want to answer and isn't obliged to. Perhaps she is at an early stage of researching a move at present and doesn't want to share this. Why are you so defensive on this topic, even to the extent that you make things up?

Anyway, there are plenty of countries where the QOL is generally better than in the UK, although it obviously depends on the individual's job, family commitments, their preferences, budget, etc. I can give you a few countries which have provided better QOL for friends and colleagues. Australia, NZ, Singapore, HK, China, the US, UAE, some European countries eg Portugal and Spain.

Why cant you just tell me?

Bizarre to evade giving information so freely accessible

Simultaneously there is the rise of the manosphere.

Younger gen Z and gen A are trending towards conservatism.

This thread is about the west v non west. You’ve included western countries in that list. Why?

No the youth that attended elite universities and have been brainwashed are like this and to be clear my son fits this description. But they are not the majority thank goodness and hopefully their generation will have a working class leaders and people that have achieved something and not the PPE dross, old Etonians and people that have worked as political advisers etc and don't live in the real world who have led this country so badly for the last 20 years.

Or they might turn sharply left! I think young people are more generally more concerned about the situation in Palestine than 'old, wealthy, white people'.

Seriously, what’s wrong with you? If you want to know, spend 5 mins finding out. It’s not for me to provide this to you.

Why can't you just say thank you for giving some examples and stop the bullying?

You’re confusing ‘criticism’ with dislike. It’s not personal it’s just an observation.

Thank you. There is the district tone of schoolyard bullying about on this thread. I see the attention is now turning to you as you have dared to offer a response that is apparently unacceptable!

‘Bullying’ to say Aus and NZ etc are western countries?

You’re a bit touchy. I agree there are great countries out there, I’m interested in which non western fit as better. Perhaps people feel China and UAE are better, which is fine. I’m not going to mind if they do think that. I wish them luck on going.

🤣🤣🤣 this is absurd.

You made a point, i asked you to quantify it, you get incredibly defensive and ask me to quantify it for you because "why should you?"

Debate is dying as a skill.

Again you're talking about a very small subset of the young. Just like in my day as a working class youth on a YTS scheme I never met anyone who campaigned for South Africa as these types were always well off university students as most of us working class were too busy working hard. They are the same types now obsessed with Palestine when there are lots of other dreadful things going on in the world they ignore.

It’s not about west vs none west. You’ve turned it into that because you have no legitimate argument to refute the original point which is that the West has caused and continues to cause the most damage globally. No one is talking about where is better to live etc you’ve gone down that tangent.