To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

The usual.muddled and incoherent argument in favour of school uniform here, I see.

We've introduced new rules and we're just starting to see a turnaround in behaviour, calmer classrooms and happier staff, then ofsted told us our suspensions are too high. 🤔

There can be catastrophic consequences if violent knife toting pupils are not excluded.

What a nonsensical approach. It is not powerful for any culture to have those on whom it is imposed constantly butting up against illogical and stupid rules. All that happens in that situation is they end up despising the idiots who make the rules and people prepared to enforce them.

Yet another goady one post wonder op
stirs up the froth and vanishes

Depends on the validity of rules.

A lot of 'academy' rules are not only stupid but actually abusive control and don't address issues they cause them. You wouldn't get away with treating adults that way.

There is a reason virtually no one sends their kid to the local academy here and those that get stuck their (short end of the stick of catchment) end up removing their kids usually. The 'school' (more like detainment center) is far too busy enforcing insanely controlling uniform rules to stamp out any ounce of harmless autonomy rather than focusing on the key point of education or the behavior and the rampant out of control bullying (that has result in many police involved assault investigations).

The old comp (despite its low ofsted report many kids seem happy there) and local religious schools (which are excellent, great grades and little to no issues) don't have as many insane rules but overall better ones and are just much better environments with better behaviors overall.

There are no lazy.disciplines in the classroom.

I might be wrong, but most of the draconian rules seem to be a result of the need to keep 30 young people under control at all times.

The obvious answer is that 30 in a class is too many for a teacher to engage.

Instead of telling governments and LEAs that they are being unrealistic, schools look for ways to make the kids easier to manage in large groups.

I've noticed this attitude towards SEN kids too; instead of holding their hands up and saying "We can't meet need," they tell parents and LEAs that they can, fail to uphold the EHCP, and restart the cycle (with less trust between all parties).

It's not a failure to say that the expectations of you are excessive and can't be met. More SLTs should be doing exactly this; change can only happen once a problem is honestly presented.

I hope none of these schools are sending pupils home without following Department for Education guidance around exclusions. Otherwise they themselves would be breaking the rules, which would hardly be setting a good example.

It's another one of the like pp upthread 'we're entitled to do what we want, act like we want....or we will make you suffer the consequences which if I recall the poster said wad to 'respond with violence and aggression' for being expected to follow school rules?

This is exactly what I think secondary schools should do. I taught in secondary for 10 years and wasted so much learning time with all the ridiculous checks of uniform. And being forced by a ridiculous policy to give a child a detention at the start of the lesson for no blazer does not set a good learning environment for the next hour, plus they’ve already got a detention so why bother behaving.

I’m all for schools having a uniform policy (it does reduce bullying for children who can’t afford all the names clothing) but I think it should definitely mirror a primary uniform policy, it’s comfier for the kids and cheaper for the parents meaning they’re more likely to comply. Most workplaces are heading for a more smart casual workwear policy anyway, so the old argument of setting children up for the workplace doesn’t really stand anymore.

My kids’ school gives ten minute lunchtime detentions for not being properly equipped. Seems fair to me. At the start of the year I bought a big box of stationery and told them where it is. Also encouraged them to always have a couple of spares. If they can’t organise the stuff they need to learn then a 10 minute detention seems fair enough.

I read this article this morning.

As usual, pupils with SEND are being unreasonably affected by draconian behaviour policies, and therefore, leaving.

I supported a family to take a school to a disability discrimination tribunal due to school policies and practices which discriminated against the child due to their SEND. We won! However, the child still left the school and it’s highly likely that nothing had changed at the school, in spite of the ruling by the tribunal panel.

My locals schools have very strict uniform policies.

But they are also so strict on anti-bullying that normal kids messing around between themselves is not allowed either when it's too physical. Fine, I am not complaining, I get where they come from, and the kids can wait until after school.

The point was that it's not one or the other, uniform or bullying, many schools manage both!

I’m not a teacher but DH is and whilst I think he’d sort of agree with you he also says regularly that when his school clamps down on uniform it has a huge overall impact on the school because there’s no little boundaries to test so the bigger ones don’t get pushed.

edit read that wrong haha. I thought you meant benefits for children as in rewards.

But you also have a point in some cases

.. prior to edit below.
One of mine school does this. Build 1,000 points or something and you get a Dominos delivered to school for lunch for you and friends to share. Other smaller prizes along the way as well.

sending them home is not a proper solution to the issue.

Ofsted is going to be assessing schools in part on their adherence to equality laws. I suspect that is going to be really problematic for some academy schools that insist on mindless rigid adherence to rules, especially around uniform.

Is your OP supposed to be so vague it attracts lots of ideas for a journalist?

These matter. Being able to follow these ‘small’ rules develops the skills and discipline needed to follow these ‘rules’ to survive the real workplace. Young people who are unable to develop these skills will struggle later on and complain about ‘mental health. Nonsense.

Organisation and memory are skills that develop at different rates.

If a kid forgets how to do a maths problem, would it help to put them in detention or is it obvious that they just need more help and time to remember that skill? Is it not disruptive when a kid is stuck and needs extra help with a problem?

I went all through school being punished for forgetting things, it didn't make me less forgetful it just ruined my self esteem and caused mental health problems.

@Teachingquestion has not bothered ti clarify and is probably just lurking and writing their slow Newsday article 😂

My kids go to this school and I’ve been on the parents page and seen the Facebook threads.

There are huge numbers of happy but quiet parents, unlike the ones who complain, laughing at some of the stories on the fb threads which are absolute nonsense. Myself included. My kids are taught in quiet calm classrooms because the ‘sweating the small stuff’ does improve low level disruption which is exhausting for staff and children and minimises learning.

My kids are not angels and have had detentions for some of the silly stuff but it’s 15 minutes and we just tell them to follow the rules next time. It’s not rocket science.

I’m all for it!

Think hard about whether this is a battle that is even worth fighting. All over the world children are educated successfully without ever having to wear uniform. Just abolish the rule, or at least massively relax it.

Am all for zero tolerance on behaviour but some of the rules brought in by our local high school are just awful.

• they all have to use the same pen- not great if you are left handed and it now smudges your work
• lining up in full uniform - no coat in torrential rain, cold weather or 30 degree heat.

-girls have been told to wear pads incase their periods start during class time as if they do and need to go to the toilet they will get a detention, if they fail to go a day in isolation.

• silence at all times in corridors and then in some classes are silent and they have to sit and listen- no note taking. Very victorian stance.
• detentions for not looking at teacher the whole time, not putting pen down quick enough ...

Am just not sure how all these crazy rules prepare children for the real world or benefit them. Though I am very much for children having struct behaviour boundaries. Interestingly many of the children who have struggled with the rules are those which behave anyway - but it has created an environment of fear, that they feel they are going to slip up and be punished.